Do You Believe in Ghosts?

Epignosis wrote: Vompatti wrote: Epignosis wrote: Vompatti wrote: Epignosis wrote: Vompatti wrote: Epignosis wrote: Vompatti wrote: Epignosis wrote: I am a Christian who does not believe in anything that is not physical. So do you believe in ghosts? And how do you define physical? http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=56485&PID=3386717#3386717 But if there is nothing besides the physical world, each person must be a physical entity that is either identical with his body or a constitutional part of it, right? So when the body ceases to exist, how can the person (or the soul) remain? If we assume that the soul is a part of physical body, why can't it be destroyed or taken apart by physical means like other physical objects? Or is it that there is some dimension of the physical body that we cannot see or touch and that already exists on a higher (eternal) dimension? You are your body- nothing more.  When you die, you return to the earth.  I do not believe people die and some immaterial part of them remains. You will find that I'm a somewhat peculiar Christian.  So you don't believe in the Resurrection or the Holy Spirit either? Yes I do. The Bible is very clear that resurrections are bodily resurrections (i.e., physical). As for the Holy Spirit, I believe that to be God's power personified (I'm, traditionally speaking, not a Trinitarian either- too much baggage with all those terms, plus the Bible doesn't teach it explicitly). I actually do not think spirit is the opposite of physical.  I could have sworn I've explained that somewhere around here before...*rummages through the threads* So what exactly happens in a physical resurrection?  Is it just another word for decomposition? When the dead (physical) person returns to the earth, will he remain a person even after he (the body) has turned into dirt? Is it really resurrection if the person doesn't exist as a one entity after death? I'm not smart enough to know the ins and outs of how this works (I don't have to be).  The Bible gives me clues (Ezekiel 37, John 11)- suffice it to say that if the God of the universe created man out of the dust of the Earth, it should be no difficult task for Him to reconstitute the human body for the resurrection. The Bible also talks about "glorified bodies" given to Christians after the resurrection. This is what Jesus had when he rose from the dead.  I take this to mean a body that exists in a higher dimension- thus able to pop in and out of "existence" in this dimension at will (this is exactly what Jesus did after his resurrection).

I still think that a person has to be something more than just the physical body. What if, for example, person A dies and his body turns into dirt, and out of that dirt grows a plant that person B eats. Now, if a person was identical with his body, persons A and B would share some physical parts. So if B dies and both A and B are resurrected, the resurrected bodies cannot consist of the same matter as the mortal bodies. Thus it makes sense to assume that resurrected people were never identical with their bodies, but that they were either spiritual or abstract entities that were first given their mortal bodies and then their glorified bodies, neither of which they are identical with.

Vompatti wrote: Epignosis wrote: Vompatti wrote: Epignosis wrote: Vompatti wrote: Epignosis wrote: Vompatti wrote: Epignosis wrote: I am a Christian who does not believe in anything that is not physical. So do you believe in ghosts? And how do you define physical? http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=56485&PID=3386717#3386717 But if there is nothing besides the physical world, each person must be a physical entity that is either identical with his body or a constitutional part of it, right? So when the body ceases to exist, how can the person (or the soul) remain? If we assume that the soul is a part of physical body, why can't it be destroyed or taken apart by physical means like other physical objects? Or is it that there is some dimension of the physical body that we cannot see or touch and that already exists on a higher (eternal) dimension? You are your body- nothing more.  When you die, you return to the earth.  I do not believe people die and some immaterial part of them remains. You will find that I'm a somewhat peculiar Christian.  So you don't believe in the Resurrection or the Holy Spirit either? Yes I do. The Bible is very clear that resurrections are bodily resurrections (i.e., physical). As for the Holy Spirit, I believe that to be God's power personified (I'm, traditionally speaking, not a Trinitarian either- too much baggage with all those terms, plus the Bible doesn't teach it explicitly). I actually do not think spirit is the opposite of physical.  I could have sworn I've explained that somewhere around here before...*rummages through the threads* So what exactly happens in a physical resurrection?  Is it just another word for decomposition? When the dead (physical) person returns to the earth, will he remain a person even after he (the body) has turned into dirt? Is it really resurrection if the person doesn't exist as a one entity after death?

I'm not smart enough to know the ins and outs of how this works (I don't have to be).  The Bible gives me clues (Ezekiel 37, John 11)- suffice it to say that if the God of the universe created man out of the dust of the Earth, it should be no difficult task for Him to reconstitute the human body for the resurrection.

The Bible also talks about "glorified bodies" given to Christians after the resurrection. This is what Jesus had when he rose from the dead.  I take this to mean a body that exists in a higher dimension- thus able to pop in and out of "existence" in this dimension at will (this is exactly what Jesus did after his resurrection).

Vompatti wrote: Epignosis wrote: Vompatti wrote: Epignosis wrote: Vompatti wrote: Epignosis wrote: I am a Christian who does not believe in anything that is not physical. So do you believe in ghosts? And how do you define physical? http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=56485&PID=3386717#3386717 But if there is nothing besides the physical world, each person must be a physical entity that is either identical with his body or a constitutional part of it, right? So when the body ceases to exist, how can the person (or the soul) remain? If we assume that the soul is a part of physical body, why can't it be destroyed or taken apart by physical means like other physical objects? Or is it that there is some dimension of the physical body that we cannot see or touch and that already exists on a higher (eternal) dimension? You are your body- nothing more.  When you die, you return to the earth.  I do not believe people die and some immaterial part of them remains. You will find that I'm a somewhat peculiar Christian.  So you don't believe in the Resurrection or the Holy Spirit either?

Yes I do.

The Bible is very clear that resurrections are bodily resurrections (i.e., physical).

As for the Holy Spirit, I believe that to be God's power personified (I'm, traditionally speaking, not a Trinitarian either- too much baggage with all those terms, plus the Bible doesn't teach it explicitly).

I actually do not think spirit is the opposite of physical.  I could have sworn I've explained that somewhere around here before...*rummages through the threads*

I add my voice to Henryplainview and Epignosis.

Vompatti wrote: Epignosis wrote: Vompatti wrote: Epignosis wrote: I am a Christian who does not believe in anything that is not physical. So do you believe in ghosts? And how do you define physical? http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=56485&PID=3386717#3386717 But if there is nothing besides the physical world, each person must be a physical entity that is either identical with his body or a constitutional part of it, right? So when the body ceases to exist, how can the person (or the soul) remain? If we assume that the soul is a part of physical body, why can't it be destroyed or taken apart by physical means like other physical objects? Or is it that there is some dimension of the physical body that we cannot see or touch and that already exists on a higher (eternal) dimension?

You are your body- nothing more.  When you die, you return to the earth.  I do not believe people die and some immaterial part of them remains.

You will find that I'm a somewhat peculiar Christian. 

I've never experienced anything that suggests ghosts are real.
I've never read/heard/seen anything that has convinced me of their existence.

So I don't believe in ghosts.

Would love to be wrong though. This world lacks some of that old-fashioned "magic".

Jim Garten wrote: definitely not weird - when I visit my mother I often chat away to my late father (in my head though - don't want mum to think her son's going doolally )

Finnforest wrote: Do any of you ever talk to dead relatives?   I find myself sometimes talking to my beloved grandparents, not because I think they hear, or because I expect an answer.  I think I do it light-heartedly because it helps me keep their memory alive somehow.  Weird, huh?

I've been doing this for the first time over the last 3 months - I lost both an Aunty and a Grandfather (The daughter and her father) within the space of 3 days, and I was really shaken emotionally by it.

My grandfather and I were particularly close, and although I'd rather not speak about it too much, but it gave me masses of comfort to talk as if they were there with me.

So not weird at all

As with God and UFOs and other such things, the only honest answer begins...

I don't know, but......





Related item: Do any of you ever talk to dead relatives?   I find myself sometimes talking to my beloved grandparents, not because I think they hear, or because I expect an answer.  I think I do it light-heartedly because it helps me keep their memory alive somehow.  Weird, huh?

Jim Garten wrote: I've had some experiences which push me to vote 'yes'

I remember you telling me about your experiences, Jim. They sounded pretty damn conclusive to me!

I've had one experience, that made me think there could be something a little more than what we know... Just because I cant explain everything in maths, flow charts and equations is not a good enough reason for me to dismiss an idea out of hand.