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Toaster Mantis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 12 2008
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 5898
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Posted: June 21 2008 at 14:18 |
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"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
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Points: 46833
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Posted: June 21 2008 at 14:10 |
^ good opinion.. and the right one... it's all about the music and delivery... most of the sh*t that makes up prog lyrics is silly and complete rubbish anyway.. .Rush anyone?
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Terria
Forum Newbie
Joined: June 17 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 12
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Posted: June 21 2008 at 14:08 |
For me, this is what it comes down too.
Bad lyrics with good delivery and good music is tolerable and almost always enjoyable.
Great lyrics with bad delivery and bad music is un-listenable (I made that word up ).
Therefore, the lyrics themselves are not as important as the delivery and the music.
IMHO
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33rpm
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 14 2006
Location: Ohio USA
Status: Offline
Points: 327
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Posted: June 21 2008 at 14:07 |
For me certain songs I love I know and love the lyrics. Other songs I love I couldn't tell you one word that is sung. All in all I would say that for me the lyrics are only mildly important.
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Vinyl just sounds better!!
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
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Points: 46833
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Posted: June 21 2008 at 14:06 |
nope... not at all.. .if I want good lyrics.. I sure as hell wouldn't listen to prog... the lyrics are often.. and most effective when they augment the music.. the best example being Yes.. and who gives a hell what Jon is singing.. but it fits the music to a T.
If I want good lyrics.. I'll listen to something else... prog is about the music.. the lyrics are window dressing
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Toaster Mantis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 12 2008
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 5898
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Posted: June 21 2008 at 13:58 |
TGM: Orb wrote:
Good lyrical content can create a convincing atmosphere
and set of ideas, or link an otherwise much less coherent piece. |
I disagree on the last one... Mastodon and Nevermore are why. I like their lyrics, but when taken as a whole neither band's music does anything for me. The fact that their lyrics are well-written but the rest of the music isn't actually means those two bands frustrate me more than a boring band with unexceptional or badly written lyrics ever could.
For some bands (e.g. Uriah Heep and Camel, I'd have thought) the lyrics are mostly an irrelevance, for others (Van Der Graaf Generator, 'Waters-era' Pink Floyd) they are a huge component. |
I happen to quite like Uriah Heep's lyrics, especially the song Rainbow Demon - psychedelic fantasy/SF is one of my favourite lyrical topics.
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"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook
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The Pessimist
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 13 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3834
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Posted: June 21 2008 at 13:57 |
If they are good, poetic lyrics? Very very very important, especially in VDGG, Tool and Genesis.
They also make the rhythm of vocal melodies more punctual, e.g. The Mars Volta. Their lyrics don't necessarily mean anything on their own, but seriously, they portray a melody perfectly.
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"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."
Arnold Schoenberg
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Statutory-Mike
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 15 2008
Location: Long Island
Status: Offline
Points: 3737
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Posted: June 21 2008 at 13:45 |
I enjoy a lot of bands that don't write very deep and meaningful lyrics, like DT's new stuff, the lyrics are garbage compared to those of Images & Words, but the music is still all there and it's great. But at the same time, there are some bands that also write great lyrics like Tool. The lyics are great, some of the best I've ever heard but IMO the music isn't as good as DT.
Just my perspective from a prog-metal point of view.
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
Status: Offline
Points: 11415
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Posted: June 21 2008 at 13:06 |
I think that lyrics in general are a bit of a blind spot in prog's rear view mirror, and agree with Toaster Mantis that the instrumental focus of the genre overcomes this shortcoming in the majority of cases
BUT....
TGM:Orb is right when he mentions that VDGG without Peter Hamill's words would be a lesser experience and is also on the nail with Floyd, whose lyrics I rate much higher than their music post 'Syd'.
ALSO...
For what it's worth, I feel that it is largely irrelevant if the lyrics themselves are unintelligible to the listener in a literal sense, as their connection with me is limited to a very large extent by my subjectivity and intelligence (or lack of more likely)
For example, much of the Italian prog movement's songs move me in an emotional way just by their delivery and texture/timbre and I don't even know a single word of Italian. (well apart from 'bella' maybe...) One band that I am told have fantastic lyrics are France's 'Ange' and it is of course frustrating for me who does not speak French, to be denied a considerably 'richer' experience when sampling their output.
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TGM: Orb
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 21 2007
Location: n/a
Status: Offline
Points: 8052
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Posted: June 21 2008 at 12:26 |
Au Contraire
The importance of lyrics depends on the band (and the album) as much as anything else. Good lyrical content can create a convincing atmosphere and set of ideas, or link an otherwise much less coherent piece. Poor lyrical content rarely makes things unlistenable, but I have to try pretty hard to get past it. For some bands (e.g. Uriah Heep and Camel, I'd have thought) the lyrics are mostly an irrelevance, for others (Van Der Graaf Generator, 'Waters-era' Pink Floyd) they are a huge component.
Rarely, lyrics are an entirely crucial part of a piece. See Yes' You And I where the lyrical content combined with the brilliantly stark titles gives a completely different feel to what I feel the piece's conclusion would otherwise have had.
More obviously, the entire Still Life album (VDGG) is on a very emotional and personal lyrical theme, searching for meaning. Without its lyrics for direction, I don't think I'd love it as much. Genesis songs such as Supper's Ready, Get 'Em Out By Friday and the entire Lamb album are essentially solidified by the lyrical choices.
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Terria
Forum Newbie
Joined: June 17 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 12
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Posted: June 21 2008 at 11:36 |
I'm not a lyrics person in general. I'm more into the delivery - the melody, harmonies, rhythm, timbre, and emotion. I could not care less as to what they actually say.
I do have 2 main exceptions though; only 2 people really write lyrics that I actually care about: Roger Waters & Adam Duritz. I also think Kevin Moore and Devin Townsend write decent lyrics.
That's my 0.02 cents...
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fuxi
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 08 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2459
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Posted: June 21 2008 at 11:25 |
I guess you're right. I never really understood what 'Firth of Fifth' or 'Mad Man Moon' were about. I suppose you could give me INTERPRETATIONS, but even then I wouldn't care too much. And still I find the former incredibly exciting, and the latter deeply beautiful and moving. The only problem is when really stupid or irritating lyrics prevent me from enjoying the song - as is often the case with the Flower Kings.
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Toaster Mantis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 12 2008
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 5898
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Posted: June 21 2008 at 10:33 |
As for me, I don't care as much about lyrics as I used to, at least not in prog rock because it's a very instrumentally oriented genre. Lyrics are a very small part of the picture, and even though they do matter I think the letter of the lyrics aren't as important as how they're delivered and how they interact with the rest of the composition.
For an example, let's take Deep Purple's Child in Time. The lyrics are extremely vague, but the way Ian Gillan performs them and the song starts with a very fragile serenity that erupts into an atmosphere of total apocalyptic destruction. It all works together so that you have to look at the big picture to really understand it. A lot of Hawkwind numbers (Be Yourself, You Shouldn't Do That) are similar cases - again, really vague lyrics that give some hints in the direction of what the song's about and the instruments filling out the blanks. Better yet, take a look at any cover song that keep almost only the lyrics intact.
Of course this depends a bit from band to band and even from song to song, but still the lyrics alone tell you very little about it... a song could be meant sarcastically but you'd have no idea about that if just going by the lyrics.
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"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook
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