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maani
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Posted: February 06 2004 at 22:22 |
Gonghobbit:
Actually, Pepper was written a few months earlier. Floyd began recording Piper as The Beatles were nearing the end of their Pepper sessions (Floyd used to "pop in" to watch).
Re "Tomorrow Never Knows," I posited on a different thread (and Peter Rideout sort of concurred, in a way...) that The Beatles almost unquestionably had "proto-prog" sensibilities before anyone else. In this regard, I would posit that even "Think for Yourself" (from Rubber Soul, early 1966) had inklings of progressive sensibilities. But I would agree with you that TNK (as well as a couple of others on Revolver) were definitely proto-progressive, with TNK being the most obvious.
Good call. (P.S. Don't forget that they actually went from Help to Rubber Soul, and then to Revolver.)
Peace.
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Gonghobbit
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Posted: February 05 2004 at 14:28 |
I've read that Pepper and Piper were being recorded at the same time right down the hall from each other, I wonder how aware of each other's efforts they were then. Does 'Tomorrow Never Knows' off of Revolver qualify as progressive? Pretty adventurous for the time, '66, must have freaked some people out then; what an experience it must have been seeing the Beatles go from Help to Revolver in a year or so.
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Silk
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Joined: February 01 2004
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Posted: February 05 2004 at 00:23 |
I realise this is an idiosyncratic position, but what the hell:
I think prog was made possible by (and started with) Dylan's "Like a Rolling Stone" because:
- it made it possible to imagine a rock song on the radio that lasted more than 4 minutes,
- it had lyrics which were literate and sharp and not about lurve,
- it emphasised the use of keyboards as a primary musical device (the organ),
- it challenged categories and pre-conceptions about rock music.
Zappa wrote somewhere that when he first heard it he thought he would never need to make an album because it did everything he wanted. Unfortunately the changes he thought it would produce never came...
Prog itself developed without such a blues base, as we know, but it was this song IMO that started it all.
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Peter
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Posted: February 05 2004 at 00:21 |
Whew! Thanks Maani! I was afraid I'd be the only one who said Crimson. As far as "widely-accepted" prog albums go, I still find the years '69 & '70 to have been critical ones for the start (or "genesis") of the serious progressive movement. I wouldn't really try to pick one band, though, because we'd need a time machine and a "written in stone" iron-clad definition of "Progressive Rock" to settle this one! (Fun topic, anyway!)
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy.
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maani
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Posted: February 04 2004 at 23:24 |
In the strictest sense, I'd have to agree largely with PROGMAN. In any case, the first three prog "albums" were Sgt. Pepper, Day of Future Past (The Moody Blues openly admit Pepper's influence) and Piper at the Gates of Dawn (Floyd openly admits a serious respect for, if not direct influence by, Pepper).
Yet even though I myself propose (elsewhere on the site) that there is a difference between an artist accidentally "stumbling" upon "progressive sensiibilites" (or even applying them consciously at times) and an artist whose overall "approach" to songwriting/arrangement/production are "progressive," I'm not sure that Sgt. Pepper - which was clearly a "conscious" effort - makes The Beatles a progressive band. Certainly the Moodies and Floyd were progressive bands.
But were they the first? Possibly, if (again) we are talking about applying "progressive sensibilities" in a deliberate, conscious way as an overall "approach" and not just an accident or an "occasional" thing.
If the simple fact of "hitting upon" "progressive sensibilities" is enough to qualify a band as "prog," some of the early ones would be Procol Harum, The Nice, probably Zappa, and maybe even Iron Butterfly (someone made a good case in another thread for "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida being the first truly prog rock song...).
Still, for my money, the first truly prog bands were The Moody Blues, Pink Floyd, and King Crimson.
Peace.
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Alexander
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Posted: February 04 2004 at 21:51 |
Gonghobbit wrote:
If you call Freak Out progressive rock, then that would pretty much be it, I'd think, '66 right? I wonder if they're going to undertake putting Frank on the site? That'd take some time, I'm sure...I've always thought Uncle Meat was among his best stuff. |
Yes, released in 1966. I think adding Zappa would be a good Idea, but very time consuming considering he has such a vast catolouge.
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On A Dilemmia Between What I Need & What I Just Want
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Gonghobbit
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Posted: February 04 2004 at 21:21 |
If you call Freak Out progressive rock, then that would pretty much be it, I'd think, '66 right? I wonder if they're going to undertake putting Frank on the site? That'd take some time, I'm sure...I've always thought Uncle Meat was among his best stuff.
Edited by Gonghobbit
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Alexander
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Posted: February 04 2004 at 16:05 |
I also forgot to meantion Frank Zappa!
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On A Dilemmia Between What I Need & What I Just Want
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Gonghobbit
Forum Senior Member
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Posted: February 04 2004 at 11:19 |
Alexander, I guess that would pretty much be the list to draw from...If Piper at the Gates of Dawn by Floyd qualifies that might be the first.
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corbet
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 01 2004
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Points: 101
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Posted: February 04 2004 at 08:40 |
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dude
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Posted: February 04 2004 at 08:15 |
I AM NOT GOING TO TOUCH THIS ONE!!!....but i will watch from the sidelines !!
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PROGMAN
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Posted: February 04 2004 at 08:07 |
WELL I WOULD SAY THE BEATLES WITH THEIR SGT PEPPER ALBUM AND PINK FLOYD, MOODY BLUES, ZAPPA ETC ALL THE 60S ARTISTS ANYWAY
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Jim Garten
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Posted: February 04 2004 at 03:16 |
Hmmmmmm - I think it would be between Procul Harum, The Moody Blues (stop laughing at the back! ), The Nice or Pink Floyd.
It's early in this thread, but nobody yet has mentioned Sergeant Pepper - brilliant album without doubt, but prog / proto-prog, nah!
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Alexander
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Posted: February 04 2004 at 00:31 |
First Prog bands in my opinion:
Pink Floyd
King Crimson
Soft Machine
Caravan
Yes
Family
Procol Harum
The Nice
Edited by Alexander
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On A Dilemmia Between What I Need & What I Just Want
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Peter
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Posted: February 03 2004 at 23:58 |
I guess to answer that one, Danbo, we'd have to first narrow the field down to some choice '69 - '70 agreeably prog albums, then try to find out who got together and began composing their music first. (Hmmm... Lots of work, and we'd still never all agree.)
Or, I could take a "leap into the breach" (Damn the torpedoes!) and say: KING CRIMSON.
Ouch! Here comes the flak!
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy.
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Dan Bobrowski
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Posted: February 03 2004 at 23:39 |
I'm not sure, but I think this could be a battle.
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