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JLocke 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
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 Posted: February 05 2008 at 04:10 |
 dpedal1 wrote:
To each his own. If you like it GREAT, it not no biggie. I'm with you on the trance like feel many bands evoke. Speaking of Isis, a buddy of mine has recommended that I get into them. Which album would you suggest. I have poked around and it seems like most recommend, "In The Absence of Truth." |
To tell you the truth, that very album is what got me into them, so I would suggest that, simply because, when I first heard it, I was like, "Wooooooahhhh!"
And realted to what some else said: I agree completely on that one really needs to pay close attention to Tool's music in order to hear all of the layers and feel all of the effects. That is why I pretty much always make jeadphones a mandatory requirement for people when I suggest listening to Tool; their music isn't listen-in-the-car-friendly. You really need to sit down and get intimate with the music before you can truly appreciate it all. At least, that's how it was with me. I didn't truly realize how beautiful "La te ral us" was until I listened to it in the phones in the comfort of my room with the lughts out. Now THAT was a memorable experience!
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Petrovsk Mizinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 24 2007
Location: Ukraine
Status: Offline
Points: 25210
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Posted: February 05 2008 at 00:11 |
Firdous e Bareen wrote:
p0mt3 wrote:
Hey, thanks.  you know, I think that's what it comes to, really; otherworldly. If you are someone who only liked prog for it's technicallity (Like Dream Theater, yes, etc.), then you will never like Tool, but if you are someone who enjoys psychedelic, trance-like listening experiences, a band like Tool, Pink Floyd, Isis, etc. would probably suit you better. I myself happen to like both sides of prog, but alot of people only lke the former aspects in the music. The topic starter seems to be one of those people, and there is nothing wrong with that, but because of this, it is curious to me as to why he feels that he needs to like Tool.  |
Music can move you on many levels, and I think that the way Tool choose to move you demands a lot more focus than the way a band like Yes moves you. They don't poor really obvious emotions into their music, but that's what makes it so special for the people who understand what it's all about - subtlety goes a long way, it moves you on a deeper level.
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I don't think subtlety is necessarily something moves you on a deeper level, but it's something that moves you in a different way, but I would agree that Tool's music can move you very deeply, as it does move me very deeply when I listen to it. I'm still extremely moved by a band like Yes, Dream Theater, Symphony X and Spastic Ink for example, but each of these bands moves me for different reasons, sometimes for similar reasons too. Same goes for Tool, but it certainly does take a lot of deep focus to hear what is going on in Tool's music, otherwise you miss out on details that add up to the overall experience.
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Firdous e Bareen
Forum Groupie
Joined: January 20 2008
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 48
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Posted: February 05 2008 at 00:01 |
p0mt3 wrote:
Hey, thanks. you know, I think that's what it comes to, really; otherworldly. If you are someone who only liked prog for it's technicallity (Like Dream Theater, yes, etc.), then you will never like Tool, but if you are someone who enjoys psychedelic, trance-like listening experiences, a band like Tool, Pink Floyd, Isis, etc. would probably suit you better. I myself happen to like both sides of prog, but alot of people only lke the former aspects in the music. The topic starter seems to be one of those people, and there is nothing wrong with that, but because of this, it is curious to me as to why he feels that he needs to like Tool. |
Music can move you on many levels, and I think that the way Tool choose to move you demands a lot more focus than the way a band like Yes moves you. They don't poor really obvious emotions into their music, but that's what makes it so special for the people who understand what it's all about - subtlety goes a long way, it moves you on a deeper level.
Edited by Firdous e Bareen - February 05 2008 at 00:03
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GoldenSpiral
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3839
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Posted: February 04 2008 at 16:46 |
dpedal1 wrote:
To each his own. If you like it GREAT, it not no biggie. I'm with you on the trance like feel many bands evoke. Speaking of Isis, a buddy of mine has recommended that I get into them. Which album would you suggest. I have poked around and it seems like most recommend, "In The Absence of Truth."
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PANOPTICON.
I wouldn't recommend starting out with anything earlier than that, but if you get into them, check out Oceanic and Celestial as well.
Edited by GoldenSpiral - February 04 2008 at 16:47
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dpedal1
Forum Groupie
Joined: September 17 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 70
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Posted: February 04 2008 at 12:57 |
p0mt3 wrote:
dpedal1 wrote:
p0mt3 wrote:
As far as I am concerned, Tool is essential prog. But I am of the minority in that opinion.
I also think "Lateralus" is the greatest album ever produced. I may possibly be completely alone in that one . . .
The bottom line is this; if you don't hear the progressive side of Tool, then asking someone to point it out to you won't help you hear it any clearer. Tool is indeed a prog band through-and-through, but they did in fact start out as a grunge band (The Opiate EP and the Undertow album for instance, are in fact not prog at all). This does not mean their latest efforts are also grunge, but if that is what it sounds like to you, then nomatter how graphically detailed and passionate a Tool fan may describe why they are prog, it won't make any difference.
However, I do have one suggestion: Listen to tracks ten through twelve on Lateralus, when you are in a very calm state, in a dimmly lit room, and through the headphones. Repeat, through the headphones. I would suggest to simply listen to whole album from beginning to end in this manner, because Tool's impact really relies on the entire album experience, but if you are unable or unwilling to sit through the whole thing with headphones on, at least listen to the last three real tracks of the album (track 13 really only works if you are listening to the album as a whole).
Forget what you think "prog-ness" is, and just let the music stand on it's own for a moment. If you truly cannot hear the beauty in Justin Chancellor's bass wizardry, cannot be uplifted by Maynard Keenan's otherwordly vocal style, don't feel entranced by Danny Carey's trance-like percussion beats after listening to these tracks at least twice, then yes, I would say that you will never see the beauty that Tool music posseses, and that's okay if you can't. Most people on this site don't see it either, so you are not alone. But if you do happen to finally see what all the fuss is about, then enjoy it, because Tool's music is frankly the most beautiful and intimate of experiences I have ever felt as far as music goes. It's a very special thing to those of us who get it. To everyone else, it's nothing special. Tool is a band one either adores or hates, there really isn't any middle ground to it. |
Probably the most otherwordly experience one can have while listening to music. I too agree that everyone should try this. Great post. |
Hey, thanks. you know, I think that's what it comes to, really; otherworldly. If you are someone who only liked prog for it's technicallity (Like Dream Theater, yes, etc.), then you will never like Tool, but if you are someone who enjoys psychedelic, trance-like listening experiences, a band like Tool, Pink Floyd, Isis, etc. would probably suit you better. I myself happen to like both sides of prog, but alot of people only lke the former aspects in the music. The topic starter seems to be one of those people, and there is nothing wrong with that, but because of this, it is curious to me as to why he feels that he needs to like Tool. |
To each his own. If you like it GREAT, it not no biggie. I'm with you on the trance like feel many bands evoke. Speaking of Isis, a buddy of mine has recommended that I get into them. Which album would you suggest. I have poked around and it seems like most recommend, "In The Absence of Truth."
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
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Posted: February 04 2008 at 12:14 |
dpedal1 wrote:
p0mt3 wrote:
As far as I am concerned, Tool is essential prog. But I am of the minority in that opinion.
I also think "Lateralus" is the greatest album ever produced. I may possibly be completely alone in that one . . .
The bottom line is this; if you don't hear the progressive side of Tool, then asking someone to point it out to you won't help you hear it any clearer. Tool is indeed a prog band through-and-through, but they did in fact start out as a grunge band (The Opiate EP and the Undertow album for instance, are in fact not prog at all). This does not mean their latest efforts are also grunge, but if that is what it sounds like to you, then nomatter how graphically detailed and passionate a Tool fan may describe why they are prog, it won't make any difference.
However, I do have one suggestion: Listen to tracks ten through twelve on Lateralus, when you are in a very calm state, in a dimmly lit room, and through the headphones. Repeat, through the headphones. I would suggest to simply listen to whole album from beginning to end in this manner, because Tool's impact really relies on the entire album experience, but if you are unable or unwilling to sit through the whole thing with headphones on, at least listen to the last three real tracks of the album (track 13 really only works if you are listening to the album as a whole).
Forget what you think "prog-ness" is, and just let the music stand on it's own for a moment. If you truly cannot hear the beauty in Justin Chancellor's bass wizardry, cannot be uplifted by Maynard Keenan's otherwordly vocal style, don't feel entranced by Danny Carey's trance-like percussion beats after listening to these tracks at least twice, then yes, I would say that you will never see the beauty that Tool music posseses, and that's okay if you can't. Most people on this site don't see it either, so you are not alone. But if you do happen to finally see what all the fuss is about, then enjoy it, because Tool's music is frankly the most beautiful and intimate of experiences I have ever felt as far as music goes. It's a very special thing to those of us who get it. To everyone else, it's nothing special. Tool is a band one either adores or hates, there really isn't any middle ground to it. |
Probably the most otherwordly experience one can have while listening to music. I too agree that everyone should try this. Great post. |
Hey, thanks. you know, I think that's what it comes to, really; otherworldly. If you are someone who only liked prog for it's technicallity (Like Dream Theater, yes, etc.), then you will never like Tool, but if you are someone who enjoys psychedelic, trance-like listening experiences, a band like Tool, Pink Floyd, Isis, etc. would probably suit you better. I myself happen to like both sides of prog, but alot of people only lke the former aspects in the music. The topic starter seems to be one of those people, and there is nothing wrong with that, but because of this, it is curious to me as to why he feels that he needs to like Tool.
Edited by p0mt3 - February 04 2008 at 12:16
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dpedal1
Forum Groupie
Joined: September 17 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 70
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Posted: February 04 2008 at 11:24 |
p0mt3 wrote:
As far as I am concerned, Tool is essential prog. But I am of the minority in that opinion.
I also think "Lateralus" is the greatest album ever produced. I may possibly be completely alone in that one . . .
The bottom line is this; if you don't hear the progressive side of Tool, then asking someone to point it out to you won't help you hear it any clearer. Tool is indeed a prog band through-and-through, but they did in fact start out as a grunge band (The Opiate EP and the Undertow album for instance, are in fact not prog at all). This does not mean their latest efforts are also grunge, but if that is what it sounds like to you, then nomatter how graphically detailed and passionate a Tool fan may describe why they are prog, it won't make any difference.
However, I do have one suggestion: Listen to tracks ten through twelve on Lateralus, when you are in a very calm state, in a dimmly lit room, and through the headphones. Repeat, through the headphones. I would suggest to simply listen to whole album from beginning to end in this manner, because Tool's impact really relies on the entire album experience, but if you are unable or unwilling to sit through the whole thing with headphones on, at least listen to the last three real tracks of the album (track 13 really only works if you are listening to the album as a whole).
Forget what you think "prog-ness" is, and just let the music stand on it's own for a moment. If you truly cannot hear the beauty in Justin Chancellor's bass wizardry, cannot be uplifted by Maynard Keenan's otherwordly vocal style, don't feel entranced by Danny Carey's trance-like percussion beats after listening to these tracks at least twice, then yes, I would say that you will never see the beauty that Tool music posseses, and that's okay if you can't. Most people on this site don't see it either, so you are not alone. But if you do happen to finally see what all the fuss is about, then enjoy it, because Tool's music is frankly the most beautiful and intimate of experiences I have ever felt as far as music goes. It's a very special thing to those of us who get it. To everyone else, it's nothing special. Tool is a band one either adores or hates, there really isn't any middle ground to it. |
Probably the most otherwordly experience one can have while listening to music. I too agree that everyone should try this. Great post.
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JayDee
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: September 07 2005
Location: Elysian Fields
Status: Offline
Points: 10063
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Posted: February 04 2008 at 09:19 |
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Can't get into Tool?Great then, don't bother trying. There are tons of other progressive metal bands out there. I find the "remember what I said about Opeth" bit very amusing. Saying something good/bad about one band does not justify your belief/disbelief with another.
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Petrovsk Mizinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 24 2007
Location: Ukraine
Status: Offline
Points: 25210
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Posted: February 04 2008 at 08:23 |
I guess what stops many people from getting into Tool, is the lack of melodicism really, and perhaps the vocal style. I first heard Tool, in about 1999, but I forgot what it sounded like, and I heard it again in about 2005, with the song Schism, and it just felt like it was the first time I had heard Tool. I liked this song, but didn't love it at first. Last year, i finally purchased one of their albums, which was 10 000 days, I listened to it, and for a while it was good, but not great. But listening to it more and more, you hear all sorts of details, and each time I listen to 10 000 days, every couple of listens, sometimes several listens consecutively, i hear details I missed the last time. I could hand someone 10 000 days and they will listen to it and might tell me they can't understand why it's so beautiful and emotional, but everytime I listen to it, it's a unique listening experience that only Tool can bring to my table. So it basically took me several months of one CD to 'get' Tool, but now that I'm there, it was worth the effort.
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
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Posted: February 03 2008 at 19:15 |
As far as I am concerned, Tool is essential prog. But I am of the minority in that opinion.
I also think "Lateralus" is the greatest album ever produced. I may possibly be completely alone in that one . . .
The bottom line is this; if you don't hear the progressive side of Tool, then asking someone to point it out to you won't help you hear it any clearer. Tool is indeed a prog band through-and-through, but they did in fact start out as a grunge band (The Opiate EP and the Undertow album for instance, are in fact not prog at all). This does not mean their latest efforts are also grunge, but if that is what it sounds like to you, then nomatter how graphically detailed and passionate a Tool fan may describe why they are prog, it won't make any difference.
However, I do have one suggestion: Listen to tracks ten through twelve on Lateralus, when you are in a very calm state, in a dimmly lit room, and through the headphones. Repeat, through the headphones. I would suggest to simply listen to whole album from beginning to end in this manner, because Tool's impact really relies on the entire album experience, but if you are unable or unwilling to sit through the whole thing with headphones on, at least listen to the last three real tracks of the album (track 13 really only works if you are listening to the album as a whole).
Forget what you think "prog-ness" is, and just let the music stand on it's own for a moment. If you truly cannot hear the beauty in Justin Chancellor's bass wizardry, cannot be uplifted by Maynard Keenan's otherwordly vocal style, don't feel entranced by Danny Carey's trance-like percussion beats after listening to these tracks at least twice, then yes, I would say that you will never see the beauty that Tool music posseses, and that's okay if you can't. Most people on this site don't see it either, so you are not alone. But if you do happen to finally see what all the fuss is about, then enjoy it, because Tool's music is frankly the most beautiful and intimate of experiences I have ever felt as far as music goes. It's a very special thing to those of us who get it. To everyone else, it's nothing special. Tool is a band one either adores or hates, there really isn't any middle ground to it.
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dpedal1
Forum Groupie
Joined: September 17 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 70
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Posted: February 03 2008 at 11:34 |
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I love Tool. Tool is the band that introduced me to prog rock. IMO, Lateralus is one of the greatest albums to be released in the past decade.
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Firdous e Bareen
Forum Groupie
Joined: January 20 2008
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 48
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Posted: February 02 2008 at 21:28 |
I think that the term "progressive" is best used as an ajective rather than a noun. It describes more an an overall philossophy on making music than it does a particular genre. Just because Tool don't use the bright melodies of Yes and Genensis doesn't mean they aren't a progressive band.
ProgBagel wrote:
Also, I think the lyrics are straightfoward, but I took a quote out of a review for the album...shows how people take these straightforward lyrics and turn them into something there not.
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Last remarkable song of Aenima is its title track. The lyrics of “Aenima” are about Southern California being all washed beneath the surface of the sea after some kind of disaster. It seems like Maynard James Keenan hates LA and wants to flush it all away. If we look deeper at what’s behind those lyrics is seems to me that the band is just outing its disapproval of the “emptiness” we have in our lives today. The more we work, the more we have, the less our lives become worth. We should go “back to basics” some times to really take the most out of our lives and learn how to estimate its true value again."
How did he come up with that?...I would really, really like to know.
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It's pretty simple really. Maynard's basically saying that all the shallow, pathetic little things in society can get f**ked. Having LA collapse into the sea is just a metaphor. The interpretation of the track you quoted was spot on, and it doesn't take a genius to figure it out. Most lyrics in progressive music require the listener to think about them. Yes's music isn't all about the passing of the seaons and King Krimson's isn't all about clocks, pigs, dogs and sheep. You need to think laterally to truly appreciate fine lyrics.
Edited by Firdous e Bareen - February 02 2008 at 21:33
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BaldFriede
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10261
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Posted: February 02 2008 at 15:59 |
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All I ever heard of them are the three example tracks in the database, and I must say I like them. The only thing that gets on my nerves is the double bass drumming; how much more interesting this would sound if instead of the in my opinion useless double bass drum would instead by a bass drum / hi-hat combination. What delicate contrast that would be!
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 BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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Samir
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Paraguay
Status: Offline
Points: 193
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Posted: February 02 2008 at 14:00 |
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A band that i cannot get into as well, but maybe later.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: February 02 2008 at 07:40 |
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This is a problem? Why?
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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toolis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 26 2006
Location: MacedoniaGreece
Status: Offline
Points: 1678
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Posted: February 02 2008 at 07:17 |
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it took me 7 months to get into Tool.. now, they are my fave band...
i am still discovering new things about their work.. the most recent was that the order of the tracks in Lateralus is not what appears to be on the CD!!!
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-music is like pornography...
sometimes amateurs turn us on, even more...
-sometimes you are the pigeon and sometimes you are the statue...
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hobbified
Forum Newbie
Joined: February 02 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 2
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Posted: February 02 2008 at 06:40 |
ProgBagel wrote:
And cut the crap out of lyrical content...their just high beyond belief. I love when people try to make sense of their lyrics.
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Now this one I find downright silly. Now I'm not one of those fools who thinks that those guys don't do drugs or write about drugs (some people will come up with all manner of ridiculous explanations) but Tool is a long way from standard stoner fare. Meaning isn't that hard to locate -- quite a few Tool songs have lyrics that are one of two types: easy to understand right off the bat (most of the "angry" stuff really), and easy to understand if you've done a little homework (hint: try Jung first).
As to Tool's "prog cred" -- well honestly I don't care, I just enjoy listening. But let's stack it up. Hella sonic layering: definitely. Vocals: yep. Maynard is a respectable singer (which seems pretty rare these days) but he can scream pretty effectively too. Phrasing: pushing the limit every day (who else is going to get away with "and if I say I might fade like a sigh if I stay, you minimize my movement anyway, I must persuade you another way" ? Besides the awesome way it plays against the rhythm, that's some sort of a compound-complex sentence or other.)
And then there's the fact that Tool consistently reminds me of Floyd, and listening to one puts me in a mood for the other...
Edited by hobbified - February 02 2008 at 06:43
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Peter
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 9669
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Posted: August 27 2007 at 00:10 |
Nor can I -- but what of it? 
I don't think there's anyone here who enjoys EVERY band listed on PA. 
(As it's collected here, "prog" is very diverse -- not really one genre.)
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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heyitsthatguy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 17 2006
Location: Washington Hgts
Status: Offline
Points: 10094
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Posted: August 26 2007 at 12:56 |
darqdean wrote:
Any band who dedicates an album to Bill Hicks has got to be worth the extra effort needed to get into them
Seriously, as others have said, if you don't like a band, it's fine, move on, there are plenty of other bands to listen too. Liking Tool isn't obligatory for your enjoyment of prog. |
Radiohead dedicated The Bends in memory of Bill Hicks  also, this thread = 
Edited by heyitsthatguy - August 26 2007 at 12:56
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Zarec
Forum Newbie
Joined: August 19 2007
Location: Romania
Status: Offline
Points: 33
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Posted: August 26 2007 at 11:46 |
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i´ve only read the first post of this thread and here´s how i see things. Tool has never been a TRUE prog band but , in stead, it has always been a very creative one. in my opinion a band passes to prog rock when that particular band, in this case Tool, transforms it´s root genre, in this case grunge (or alternative metal for some) into something far more complex regardless of the level of melodicity. Tool has a complex intelctual backgroud that focuses on psychology and that complexity is reflected in their music. The composition of each album from 96 till the present is rather unique not to mention that as a metal band they pay to the bass just as much attention as they pay to the guitar. generaly in metal the bass is used only for sharpening the sound.
tool is not melodical but it is very creative.
the comparation with slipknot is a bit absurd because slipknot is an agressive metal band that doesn´t persue any subliminal music (in spite of the title of their last full-lengh album).
the main element in the music of slipknot is rhythm. The band features a great drumer (the only good musician in the band), joey jordison, and two other percusionsits while Tool doesn´t really want to achieve intensity through rhythm but through amasing bass and guitar compositions lead by subtile vocals.
Edited by Zarec - August 26 2007 at 11:46
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/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
Cannot get into Tool
