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Peter 
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 9669
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 Posted: May 02 2007 at 08:32 |
 The Whistler wrote:
No, because I hate people who only review one specific genre or the like. It's a sign of narrow mindedness. |
So tell me then: how am I supposed to get these albums from genres i know I dislike? Buy them? i don't think so! Steal them? Risk criminal prosecution for something I don't even want? 
And then, even if I do somehow get some of those strongly-disliked albums, I'll have to force myself to listen to them enough times to be able to review them. Why would I do that? What's in it for me?
I think some of you nay-sayers aren't really thinking this through! 
And re your sweeping "narrow-mindedness" generalization, surely we all have our individual limits on the types of music we enjoy. Is that really indicative of a serious character flaw, and someone worthy of your hatred? 
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20250
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Posted: May 02 2007 at 08:20 |
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
But surely having a solid background (e.g. knowing similar albums) improves the quality of a review (its usefulness). For example, if you're a total newbie when it comes to Krautrock and you listen to Tago Mago, you can write a review and describe what you like about it and what not, but you have few points of reference to compare it to.
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I know this might appear nitpicking, but the numbers of years spent knowing the albums are ever-important at rating/reviewing games.
If I head heard Univers Zero at the age of 15 (wishful thinking here  ) and written reviews in the direct future (let's say one year), I might have written all five stars reviews (provided I was ready for that kind of music) regardless of the history and the lack of knowledge of other surrounding bands that made RIO.
Instead, I heard UZ when I was 27, being already aware of Henry Cow (which I still have to review, BTW  ), and wrote my reviews two years ago. This, I feel, gives me the necessary width of view to review them properly.
^^Many have written me about how important they felt this aspect of rating music is, and regretting that this is not more common.
So I am definitely more at ease at rating 70's music (not necessarily one that I knew back then, because there is still 70's stuff I am discovering nowadays >> Ex: David Sancious) and can give a better rating according to its place in history. Where I am definitely less at ease is on the newer prog (you can definitely believe I am not quite as pleased with those) beit progmetal, post-rock or neo-prog (to which I admit I do have an aural prejudice >> it simply bugs/annoys my ears   ), but also newer RIO, or Art Rock.
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21206
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Posted: May 02 2007 at 08:02 |
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Generally I'd say that a fan of the band is in a better position to write a helpful review for an album than someone who completely dislikes the band or the style.
Imagine someone who completely dislikes onions and one day decides to post reviews of dishes which contain onions. These reviews will probably be negative ... and even if that person tries to be objective and to judge the dish from the perspective of someone who likes onions, it would still be a little bit awkward ... and how would that person be able to distinguish good onions from bad onions?
Edited by MikeEnRegalia - May 02 2007 at 08:03
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Rocktopus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 02 2006
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 4202
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Posted: May 02 2007 at 07:54 |
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For example: should The T review Dream Theater? Should someone that worships DT review DT albums? Will those reviews be fairer or more just towards the music than reviews written by the bands haters?
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Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes
Find a fly and eat his eye
But don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21206
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Posted: May 02 2007 at 05:05 |
Certif1ed wrote:
I don't believe in genres - they only confuse matters.
If I've bought an album and feel like reviewing it, then I'll review it.
After all - it's only one opinion among many, and I don't consider myself a genre expert as I don't believe in them.
It's all Progressive Music.
Or not... |
But surely having a solid background (e.g. knowing similar albums) improves the quality of a review (its usefulness). For example, if you're a total newbie when it comes to Krautrock and you listen to Tago Mago, you can write a review and describe what you like about it and what not, but you have few points of reference to compare it to.
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21206
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Posted: May 02 2007 at 05:01 |
1800iareyay wrote:
The problem is that if people reviewed only genres they loved every album would have a 4.something rating.
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Nonsense ... just because I like Prog Metal for example does not mean that the albums get a "bonus". Of course the average rating of my PM reviews might be higher than the average rating of reviews for genres which I don't like.
1800iareyay wrote:
If reviewers have natural prejudices against the band (as Ivan does about DT) he or she should not review. However, if someone doesn't like prog metal but gives DT an objective listen, I welcome the review, however negative. |
I don't mind negative reviews by biased people, but they should explain their bias in the review (e.g. "I don't like prog metal to start with", or "I don't like any of this band's albums").
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The Whistler
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 30 2006
Location: LA, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 7113
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Posted: May 02 2007 at 03:29 |
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No, because I hate people who only review one specific genre or the like. It's a sign of narrow mindedness.
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"There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 7559
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Posted: May 02 2007 at 02:59 |
I don't believe in genres - they only confuse matters.
If I've bought an album and feel like reviewing it, then I'll review it.
After all - it's only one opinion among many, and I don't consider myself a genre expert as I don't believe in them.
It's all Progressive Music.
Or not...
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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debrewguy
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 30 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3596
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Posted: May 01 2007 at 22:15 |
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I think reserving yourself to groups you like makes it hard for people to figure if they should try a new group that they've yet to hear. For me, that was VDGG. I went through some heavy listening sessions with 5-6 albums of theirs & simply did not find them to my liking, although I could see what others might find attractive. So I figured my reviews would at least balance out the fanatics raves.
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Peter
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 9669
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Posted: May 01 2007 at 22:11 |
Atomic_Rooster wrote:
Yes, I think you nailed it!
Four pigs for you! -   - oops one of them seems to have died...
Of course I make a habit of reviewing everything I've ever heard, even if I fell asleep while listening to it 5 years ago and havn't heard it since.
But, thats because I'm strong (flexes muscles while holding a guitar in one hand and shotgun in the other).
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What an odd response!
Sorry, but I honestly can't tell if you are supporting my post, or mocking it.
or both....
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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Atomic_Rooster
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 26 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1210
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Posted: May 01 2007 at 21:07 |
Peter wrote:
 ^ M-icky,
I often read reviews by strangers (in magazines) whose tastes are
unknown to me, but which I nonetheless find useful and informative. (i
have been led to many fine albums this way.)
Re the larger, original topic, in general I believe one should at least be a potential
fan of the type of music in question. Imagine me reviewing for a hip
hop or death metal site. All of my reviews would read like this, in
essence: "Warning -- more hip hop!" or "More death metal. hate it --
haven't heard any good death metal yet. What's wrong with you people?"
Imagine a food critic who hates all but kraft Dinner and PB
sandwiches... Imagine a theatre critic who hates plays.... A book
reviewer who hates heroic fantasy reviewing LOTR: "Elves, orcs and
hobbits? WTF? Those aren't real! Are you people all on drugs? This is limp-wristed, escapist hippy crap!"
etc. 
(To that degree, broad categories, as we find in record stores, are useful: "This section is Death Metal, hey? Well I won't like any of that!" "Miles Davis is Jazz? Yuck! Where's the Rock section?" )
So let's assume the reader already knows
that DT is a metal band. He doesn't need me to tell him that, or that
the lyrics of said form are often doomy/gloomy, the riffs lightning
fast, the drums bombastic, etc. I think he'll be best served by a
review written by someone who appreciates metal, and who can thus write
about it in a more informed, unprejudiced manner.
We are prog fans. how much sense would it make
for us all to write reviews for a country site, and for the hard-core,
line-dancing Shania Twain and George Strait fan to review Pawn Hearts
or Free Hand?
So yes, I think one should like at least SOME of the genre in question, to review it, and you should reasonably, potentially be capable of liking the album you are reviewing.
(Would you want a non beer drinker's advice on the best beer to buy? Let a gay guy pick your next dance partner for you? )
My 10 year-old son's appraisal of the opera i played for him this morning was not a flattering one, but what does he know about opera, Bizet, or Luciano Pavarotti?  |
Yes, I think you nailed it!
Four pigs for you! - - oops one of them seems to have died...
Of course I make a habit of reviewing everything I've ever heard, even
if I fell asleep while listening to it 5 years ago and havn't heard it
since.
But, thats because I'm strong (flexes muscles while holding a guitar in one hand and shotgun in the other).
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I am but a servant of the mighty Fripp, the sound of whose loins shall forever be upon the tongues of his followers.
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Ghandi 2
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 17 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1494
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Posted: May 01 2007 at 20:47 |
I think only if it's a famous and generally regarded as accessible album. It's not much good for someone who doesn't like heavy metal to review Meshuggah, but it is useful for someone who's not a metal fan who wants to learn more about prog metal to hear what another non-metal fan thinks about SFAM. Now, if someone absolutely hates metal in any form it's not really useful, but I don't think there are many people who do that.
Something that bothers me is when someone gets one album by a band and doesn't like it, but then proceeds to give negative reviews to all the band's other albums--we get it, you don't like them, so why are you bothering to give us your review of what is regarded as their weakest album when we already know you hate their strongest?
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Peter
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 9669
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Posted: May 01 2007 at 20:34 |
^ M-icky, I often read reviews by strangers (in magazines) whose tastes are unknown to me, but which I nonetheless find useful and informative. (i have been led to many fine albums this way.)
Re the larger, original topic, in general I believe one should at least be a potential fan of the type of music in question. Imagine me reviewing for a hip hop or death metal site. All of my reviews would read like this, in essence: "Warning -- more hip hop!" or "More death metal. hate it -- haven't heard any good death metal yet. What's wrong with you people?"
Imagine a food critic who hates all but kraft Dinner and PB sandwiches... Imagine a theatre critic who hates plays.... A book reviewer who hates heroic fantasy reviewing LOTR: "Elves, orcs and hobbits? WTF? Those aren't real! Are you people all on drugs? This is limp-wristed, escapist hippy crap!"
etc.
(To that degree, broad categories, as we find in record stores, are useful: "This section is Death Metal, hey? Well I won't like any of that!" "Miles Davis is Jazz? Yuck! Where's the Rock section?" )
So let's assume the reader already knows that DT is a metal band. He doesn't need me to tell him that, or that the lyrics of said form are often doomy/gloomy, the riffs lightning fast, the drums bombastic, etc. I think he'll be best served by a review written by someone who appreciates metal, and who can thus write about it in a more informed, unprejudiced manner.
We are prog fans. how much sense would it make for us all to write reviews for a country site, and for the hard-core, line-dancing Shania Twain and George Strait fan to review Pawn Hearts or Free Hand?
So yes, I think one should like at least SOME of the genre in question, to review it, and you should reasonably, potentially be capable of liking the album you are reviewing.
(Would you want a non beer drinker's advice on the best beer to buy? Let a gay guy pick your next dance partner for you? )
My 10 year-old son's appraisal of the opera i played for him this morning was not a flattering one, but what does he know about opera, Bizet, or Luciano Pavarotti?
Edited by Peter - May 01 2007 at 20:39
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
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Posted: May 01 2007 at 19:27 |
The T wrote:
I ask this because I've read a few opinions saying
that people shouldn't review albums that they more than likely won't
like because they don't like the genre itself. Now, the argument is not
that illogical: if you go about writing a review with pre-conceptions
about a particular genre, maybe it won't be that fair. Or, even more
important, people that DO love certain genres know more about every
aspect of the music and therefore may be more qualified to write a
review about an album. On the other hand, might it be that when people
that don't like or don't know a particular genre that much write a
review about it, that review would probably be more cold, ergo, more
useful for another person who doesn't know the music? For example:
should I review post-rock? sdhould someone that dislikes
progressive-metal review progressive-metal albums? Will those reviews
be fairer or more unjust towards the music than reviews written by
genre's lovers? What kind of review is the average person looking for
when that person is researching about music he/she doesn't know and
have never heard? How come gas prices keep going up in US? All these
questions I'd like answered, please. If you may.  |
cutting through the crap and getting TO the questions hahahha..... the important one at least
because this country was stupid enough to elect an oilman for President..
as far as the reviews... quite simple
if you buy an album based on the opinion of someone that you don't
'know'... you get what you deserve. As noted in the last flap
about my reviews... I don't write them for the site at large. I
write them for those people who know what I like.. and what I don't
like. Only then would my review of the album really make any
difference to the reader.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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1800iareyay
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2492
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Posted: May 01 2007 at 19:25 |
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The problem is that if people reviewed only genres they loved every album would have a 4.something rating. If reviewers have natural prejudices against the band (as Ivan does about DT) he or she should not review. However, if someone doesn't like prog metal but gives DT an objective listen, I welcome the review, however negative.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: May 01 2007 at 19:14 |
erik neuteboom wrote:
It's all about respect and skills, if one of those two elements fail, one shouldn't allow reviews  |
Good points:
Respect: I don't like a single album by Dream Theater, so my reviews would be disrespectful because I have a prejudice against them.
Skills: I don't understand albums as Thrak or Bbooom by King Crimson, so I don't have the knowledge and skills to make a fair review, I rather avoid them.
But for example, I'm not an expert in Fusion but I like Jean-Luc Ponty albums, so I rate the ones I like and the ones I don't like equally, I don't need to be an expert to know that Aurora or Imaginary Voyage have the touch of the genius and that Tchokola is weak in comparison with the rest of his material, so I believe I have enough knowledge to make a respectful review saying the album is bellow his average.
I never rate RIO albums simply because I'm unable to understand it, I frequently rate Folk albums because I love that genre and I believe I'm able to understand it.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - May 01 2007 at 19:15
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debrewguy
Special Collaborator
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Joined: April 30 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3596
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Posted: May 01 2007 at 19:01 |
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If I may quote (roughly) the great "T", from a previous post - if there's an album that I see is rated highly & once I've listened to it, I dislike it, I think I should share that with others, just as much as I would share a positive review.
I.E. If I don't care for RIO/Avant-Garde, how would I find out about Univers Zero , which I've come to love.? The reviewer who has stumbled upon an album outside their usual fave genres can be a great guide in arousing others' curiosity. Plus, even if I'm an RPI fan, there are bands that I just can't understand their high ranking. SO even within a genre, my taste may be mine only.
Edited by debrewguy - May 01 2007 at 19:02
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erik neuteboom
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 27 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 7659
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Posted: May 01 2007 at 17:42 |
It's all about respect and skills, if one of those two elements fail, one shouldn't allow reviews
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tuxon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 21 2004
Location: plugged-in
Status: Offline
Points: 5502
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Posted: May 01 2007 at 17:33 |
Basically the number of reviews (and ratings) are too low, so therefor it would be better to have basically just the people who are favourable towards a subgenre to rate those albums, since the downward effect of one or two nay/sayers have too much affect on the albums stats.
this off course will have an upward effect on the average rating, but since we know that those ratings come from people who like the subgenre it can be put in persective.
With more reviews and ratings added there comes a time when their needs to be made an adjustement downwards, which of course can come form people who are not as favourable to the subgenre, so in the end it needs to be a balanced package with all the different flavours added to the result.
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I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
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Heptade
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 19 2005
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 427
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Posted: May 01 2007 at 16:22 |
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It would be nice if people who reviewed albums judged them on the merits of what they are offering, not their own preconceptions, but that may be too much to ask in this day and age.
Personally, I don't review albums in prog metal or post rock, but generally that's because I haven't heard them!
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The world keeps spinning, people keep sinning
And all the rest is just bullsh*t
-Steve Kilbey
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/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
Should reviews be written only by genres'
well-heard), this is not only a question of width/scope/spectrum, but a question on the duration (the fourth dimension: time
