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JrKASperov
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 07 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 904
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Posted: February 11 2005 at 14:10 |
Certif1ed wrote:
Yes, it is so
The bass is not intricate - but it doesn't need to be; it needs to be solid for most of Genesis' material, and Rutherford does that more than admirably.
As for drums - are you barking? Collins' drums are beautifully intricate!
Also, you neglect to acknowledge the wondrousness of Bank's keyboards - Firth of Fifth is unarguably sublime, and everywhere else, the keyboards are used sensitively and in a beautifully understated way. This is pure genius - the hallmark of "less is more".
The same goes for Hackett's guitar work - you miss the point, in that you fail to see the delicate intricateness of the textures in your vain search for blunt in-your-facedness - which would be ugly supporting Peter's vocals.
Finally (for now), you miss the pure free-flowing improvised feel of the music in the harmonic progresssions - there is nothing simple there; it is all deceptive, and meant to be. This is not music for those who require everything to be spelt out, this is music for people with a high degree of appreciation especially for variety and guile.
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-Chris Squire does make it intricate (like on Heart of the Sunrise), and it immediately sounds 10 times as good.
-No, Phil does NOT drum intricately here, I've not only have me decide that, but laid that problem before a few people, all far from unknown in music. Listen to his work on Brand X to know the difference.
-Yes, the keyboards and guitars are nice, but that just doesn't cut it. They still make the song feel empty by not having a solid backing, which was my original point.
Again, in general, I feel your need to put me down as an unknowing person, as you immediately take it I search for 'blunt in-your-facedness'. I wonder why this must be so? I have not even addressed Peter's voice...Maybe you do have a feel of a higher position because you are learned? (this is not an attack but I simply WONDER why you do make it seem so)
It sounds like improvising music indeed, your analysis of that is true, what I argue, however, is that it sounds empty, and unfinished, as if P&M had not the technical capabilities to improvise adequately here. vdGG do make their music deceptively easy sounding, and I wrote that in my review of Godbluff, so I DO listen closely.
Furthermore, I'd like to add to this that my point is that Genesis is nice and all, but it is far from THE BEST. Bands that DO add intricate bass, drums and keyboards like YES, KING CRIMSON and VDGG do such a good job at this that it fits in! Especially Bruford, I have applauded his works many times. Theya re simply better because of this, and that is why i don't accept Genesis having such a lead here.
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Epic.
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 7559
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Posted: February 11 2005 at 14:00 |
JrKASperov wrote:
Certif1ed wrote:
JrKASperov wrote:
But... WHY?!?!
Genesis is so... weak...
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Melodically (as a single example), it is extremely strong and rich.
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Not so. Their songs have got a meldoy that may be catchy, but that's it, no intricate backing by bass, let alone Collin's drums. It sounds empty, there is nothing to be found but the melody and the vocals. You can in no way drool over what P&M accomplish in the backrows. They have their moments, but that is seldom so. To be honest, I've only found that in Supper's Ready and CanUtility.
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Yes, it is so
The bass is not intricate - but it doesn't need to be; it needs to be solid for most of Genesis' material, and Rutherford does that more than admirably.
As for drums - are you barking? Collins' drums are beautifully intricate!
Also, you neglect to acknowledge the wondrousness of Bank's keyboards - Firth of Fifth is unarguably sublime, and everywhere else, the keyboards are used sensitively and in a beautifully understated way. This is pure genius - the hallmark of "less is more".
The same goes for Hackett's guitar work - you miss the point, in that you fail to see the delicate intricateness of the textures in your vain search for blunt in-your-facedness - which would be ugly supporting Peter's vocals.
Finally (for now), you miss the pure free-flowing improvised feel of the music in the harmonic progresssions - there is nothing simple there; it is all deceptive, and meant to be. This is not music for those who require everything to be spelt out, this is music for people with a high degree of appreciation especially for variety and guile.
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ShrinkingViolet
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 433
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Posted: February 11 2005 at 13:56 |
I would vote for Genesis - Selling England as it's my favourite Genesis album...with the beautiful Cinema Show...I know what i like etc..a superb album!
What a year for albums..the outstanding Brain Salad Surgery...Camel...larks tongue..and Dark side...
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Garion81
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 22 2004
Location: So Cal, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4338
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Posted: February 11 2005 at 13:45 |
I am a big fan of ELP and Genesis and if you asked me in 1973 it would have been ELP if you ask me now it would be Genesis.
Edited by Garion81
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
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JrKASperov
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 07 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 904
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Posted: February 11 2005 at 13:36 |
Certif1ed wrote:
JrKASperov wrote:
But... WHY?!?!
Genesis is so... weak...
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Melodically (as a single example), it is extremely strong and rich.
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Not so. Their songs have got a meldoy that may be catchy, but that's it, no intricate backing by bass, let alone Collin's drums. It sounds empty, there is nothing to be found but the melody and the vocals. You can in no way drool over what P&M accomplish in the backrows. They have their moments, but that is seldom so. To be honest, I've only found that in Supper's Ready and CanUtility.
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Epic.
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 7559
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Posted: February 11 2005 at 13:29 |
Swinton MCR wrote:
Yeah Right whatever - Selling England by a country mile..........The rest are good albums but DSOTM ? = Not even prog really (a pop album of it's day !)
BSS = KE9 - Great in parts but the rest of the album is pants !
How CAN a Genesis fan* say that DSOTM is BETTER than SEBTP (that just Beggars belief) - Firth of fifth and Cinema show is better than ANYTHING floyd ever wrote (IMHO).
Still get a buzz listening to SEBTP - A top 5 prog album of all time contender - DSOTM wouldn't get in my top 500 !
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Don't get confused between "Pop" and "Popular" now...
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Fitzcarraldo
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 30 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1835
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Posted: February 11 2005 at 13:25 |
Some other good albums not mentioned in the poll or subsequent posts, that were released in 1973 and I also like:
GREENSLADE - s/t
RICK WAKEMAN - The Six Wives Of Henry VIII
MIKE OLDFIELD - Tubular Bells
EDIT/Whoops, just seen that Vegetableman mentioned Tubular Bells.
Edited by Fitzcarraldo
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Swinton MCR
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 19 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 848
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Posted: February 11 2005 at 13:19 |
Yeah Right whatever - Selling England by a country mile..........The rest are good albums but DSOTM ? = Not even prog really (a pop album of it's day !)
BSS = KE9 - Great in parts but the rest of the album is pants !
How CAN a Genesis fan* say that DSOTM is BETTER than SEBTP (that just Beggars belief) - Firth of fifth and Cinema show is better than ANYTHING floyd ever wrote (IMHO).
Still get a buzz listening to SEBTP - A top 5 prog album of all time contender - DSOTM wouldn't get in my top 500 !
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 7559
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Posted: February 11 2005 at 13:17 |
JrKASperov wrote:
But... WHY?!?!
Genesis is so... weak...
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It depends on what you consider strengths to be in music.
"Selling England..." is simply one of the greatest albums of all time - let alone one of the greatest prog albums.
Melodically (as a single example), it is extremely strong and rich.
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threefates
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4215
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Posted: February 11 2005 at 13:10 |
JrKASperov wrote:
But... WHY?!?!
Genesis is so... weak...
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Because this poll proves that ELP fans aren't the only ones who "look on blindly and say I see..."
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THIS IS ELP
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JrKASperov
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 07 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 904
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Posted: February 11 2005 at 12:16 |
But... WHY?!?!
Genesis is so... weak...
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Epic.
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greenback
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: August 14 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3300
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Posted: February 11 2005 at 12:02 |
honorable mention: renaissance - ashes are burning!
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[HEADPINS - LINE OF FIRE: THE RECORD HAVING THE MOST POWERFUL GUITAR SOUND IN THE WHOLE HISTORY OF MUSIC!>
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Rui__
Forum Newbie
Joined: March 28 2004
Location: Portugal
Status: Offline
Points: 29
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Posted: February 11 2005 at 09:10 |
Impossible to vote, i choose them all
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Jethro Fish
Forum Groupie
Joined: January 13 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 95
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Posted: February 11 2005 at 08:57 |
I was torn between "Selling England by the pound" and "Dark side of the moon" but went with "Dark side..." because I think it's such a perfect album all the way through while "Selling..." has "More fool me" which is not very good IMO and "I know what I like" which is not really bad but not one of my favorites.
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All the best,
Per
www.salvaband.com
New cd: Salva "Left to burn", out now
Available through:
www.caerllysimusic.co.uk
www.progressrec.com
www.justforkicks.de
www.salvaband.com
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Marcelo
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 15 2004
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 310
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Posted: February 11 2005 at 08:31 |
Beside Selling England, two incredible masterpieces were realized in 1973, in Italy: Felona e Sorona (Le Orme) and Zarathustra (Museo Rosenbach). But all the world always talk about the same (excellent too) British albums. Unfair. And sad.
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Emperor
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 08 2004
Location: Russian Federation
Status: Offline
Points: 480
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Posted: February 11 2005 at 03:06 |
ivan_2068 wrote:
Emperor wrote:
In Genesis's discography SELLING INGLAND in #4 for me after THE LAMB, FOXTROT and NURSERY CRYME... |
We almost agree, in mine is N° 5:
This doesn't mean it's a bad album, by the contrary, it's excellent, Genesis with Gabriel only released superb albums, but even among the best there are ranks. SEBTP sounds too transitional to me, I find it closer to A Trick of the Tail than to any other Genesis release, a couple of radio friendly tracks, two masterpieces, and a couple of fillers, very irregular.Iván
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Yes, all the Gabriel Era albums by Genesis are excellent, the Masterpieces!
What tracks from SEBTP you consider as the masterpieces and fillers?
My favorite one from there is CINEMA SHOW/AISLE OF PLENTY, THE BATTLE OF EPPING FOREST is #2, FIFTH OF FIRTH is #3. All the tracks are the Great Masterpieces, IMO
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I Prophesy Disaster...
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
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Posted: February 10 2005 at 16:27 |
'Selling England..' Without a doubt. It is quintessential English prog. IMO it is one of the bands strongest albums ever. Their playing was brilliant. For the first time on record the true skill of the Genesis machine could be heard, complimented by the best production they had managed to date. It has some of my favourite prog moments of all time; 'Dancing with the moonlit knight' and that fantastic piano intro to 'Firth of fifth'
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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frosty
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 16 2005
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 120
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Posted: February 10 2005 at 16:07 |
Emperor wrote:
frosty wrote:
Genesis' finest moment without doubt.
From the first note to the last an absolute treat.
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With doubt...
It'd be a greater album without out-of-place (but good) I KNOW WHAT I LIKE and (much weaker than other stuff of the entire album) MORE FOOL ME...
In Genesis's discography SELLING INGLAND in #4 for me after THE LAMB, FOXTROT and NURSERY CRYME...
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OK hands up time, I got a bit carried away.
More Fool Me didn't need to be on an album already topping 50 minutes.
I have to disagree though about 'I Know What I Like'.
Definately my top Genesis album, I wouldn't have 'The Lamb...' in my top 6 or 7. However I have no problem with people who think this is Genesis' best as it would be a very boring world if everyone had the same likes and dislikes.
I would say that it surprises me greatly that the poll is showing SEBTP so far ahead of DSOTM, I thought that it would be a lot closer. Never knew so many people thought the same as myself.
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starofsirius
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 12 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 157
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Posted: February 10 2005 at 13:41 |
Hmm. As much as I love "Selling England by the Pound" I have to go with DSOTM, I can't betray the floyd, I love them.
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"I'm in a freefall like a snowflake falling down down down down down."
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Velvetclown
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 13 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 8548
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Posted: February 10 2005 at 12:39 |
A PASSION PLAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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