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Ivan_Melgar_M 
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 Posted: January 16 2005 at 18:09 |
 Mars Volta, widely considered one of the new emerging prog bands, has combined progressive and punk/emo influences in a unique and interesting way |
Mars Volta is a Prog' band that mix some punk elements, that's clear. Progressive Rock usually mixes elements of different genres, but that's not the case you presented before.
A progressibve band will use any element of any genre to create a different sound, that's their nature and one of their main characteristics. But Punk is basicly take rock to it's simplest form, so mixing elements of other genres is not their nature, if they do so, they stop being punk.
| azz came from crossing african rhythms and european compositional artistry. |
Jazz wasn't created to destroy African or European music, it's a blend of both, Punk was created to destroy Prog'.
Iván
Edited by ivan_2068
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Sweetnighter
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Joined: October 24 2004
Location: United States
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Points: 1298
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Posted: January 16 2005 at 18:03 |
Useful_Idiot wrote:
ivan_2068 wrote:
But back to the point, Sweetnighter did you said a Punk band can play Progressive music???
Punk was born suposedly to destroy what progressive did to music,
they did music based in 2 or 3 chords, they can't play progressive
rock unless they do a cover album.
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This is true in theory, but if you need proof that there are punk
bands who go beyond it, download the song "Marquee Moon" by Television
(which clocks in at over 10 minutes and has extended soloing that would
make Yes jealous) or "The Decline" by NOFX (which clocks in at nearly
20, and has tons of different sections that sound totally different
from each other, and even some soloing). Or listen to The Mars
Volta, who have a strong punk aspect in their music, but are undeniably
prog. |
Mars Volta, widely considered one of the new emerging prog bands, has
combined progressive and punk/emo influences in a unique and
interesting way. Point taken that bands like the Ramones set out to
destroy and eradicate prog from the earth, but musicians keep moving on
and look for new and interesting things to play... new genres are born
out of bringing genres together. Jazz came from crossing african
rhythms and european compositional artistry. Rock came out of crossing
folk and bluegrass with those jazz elements, albeit to a lesser degree,
and the instrumental technology of the 1950s. Influences compound upon
influences and allow music to move foward into the future! So yes, punk
and prog were decidedly opposing musical elements in the late 70s, but
this is 2005! Musicians mix influences in often bizarre and interesting
ways, and thats whats so beautiful about it all.
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I bleed coffee. When I don't drink coffee, my veins run dry, and I shrivel up and die.
"Banco Del Mutuo Soccorso? Is that like the bank of Italian soccer death or something?" -my girlfriend
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: January 16 2005 at 18:02 |
Well, "Consumatum Est" Radiohead is in, hope nobody has the bright idea to include Bjork, Coldplay or ELO.
Iván
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Sweetnighter
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Joined: October 24 2004
Location: United States
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Points: 1298
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Posted: January 16 2005 at 17:56 |
I think we've seen the slippery slope argument made quite a few times
here by now. "If we put Radiohead in as prog, before you know it
Brittney Spears will be prog!" This will not happen people! We
have Maani and team to set the limit. After all, I'm pretty confident
that the choice on their behalf to put Radiohead in the archives was
not made lightly, and may have even been done with some degree of
reluctance, although I have no way of knowing.
Although I do think Radiohead is playing some of the most progressive
music in the popular domain today, I do agree with the dissenters to a
degree, that any old band that does a concept album or a 10 minute song
can't be automatically considered progressive. Again, I have faith in
Maani and team to make wise decisions regarding this. Ultimately this
board and the archives were set up to educate people about progressive
rock and to allow its fans to discuss the topic. These are the ultimate
goals that they have in sight and won't stray from them.
Not to mention, do you think Maani and team really think we're intelligent anyway? 
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I bleed coffee. When I don't drink coffee, my veins run dry, and I shrivel up and die.
"Banco Del Mutuo Soccorso? Is that like the bank of Italian soccer death or something?" -my girlfriend
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Bryan
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Joined: April 01 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 3013
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Posted: January 16 2005 at 17:56 |
ivan_2068 wrote:
But back to the point, Sweetnighter did you said a Punk band can play Progressive music???
Punk was born suposedly to destroy what progressive did to music, they did music based in 2 or 3 chords, they can't play progressive rock unless they do a cover album.
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This is true in theory, but if you need proof that there are punk bands who go beyond it, download the song "Marquee Moon" by Television (which clocks in at over 10 minutes and has extended soloing that would make Yes jealous) or "The Decline" by NOFX (which clocks in at nearly 20, and has tons of different sections that sound totally different from each other, and even some soloing). Or listen to The Mars Volta, who have a strong punk aspect in their music, but are undeniably prog.
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frenchie
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 30 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2234
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Posted: January 16 2005 at 17:56 |
Useful_Idiot wrote:
frenchie wrote:
if radiohead are in then that gives bands like muse, doves and elbow an equal chance cos they have the same amount of prog elements. but they dont get to be in so why shud radiohead? at the rate we're going AC/DC will be added next!
There has always been a strong wall between what is prog and what isnt and now that wall has been broken so tonnes of bands that have a slight prog element will probably be let in now.
they must have known that this would cause tonnes of controversy yet they went against what the people of this archive want and added them anyway. i thought it was reli respectful of them not to add them after the months and months of debate and now that they have i have lost faith in this site. |
You've lost faith in this site just because they added one band (a band you like, I might add) who you don't think should be in here???? As I said earlier, calm down!!!
What sets Radiohead apart from bands like Muse and Doves is that if you can find a Muse song that reaches the epic heights of Paranoid Android or Climbing up the Walls, or pushes the enevloppe of modern music in the way that Kid A did as an album, then I've evidently misjudged Muse greatly. Same goes for the Doves.
Where did AC/DC come from? Surely you must admit that RH at least has more prog merrits than AC/DC...
Aqualung, Muse is pretty much Radiohead without the daring experimentation that makes Radiohead so great. |
the AC/DC comment was sarcasm sorry. i reli shudnt use sarcasm online cos its harder to pick up. AC/DC are just standard rock and not prog at all, so i was trying to exaggerate how big a problem i see this as
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The Worthless Recluse
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arcer
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 01 2004
Location: United Kingdom
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Points: 1239
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Posted: January 16 2005 at 17:54 |
Me too and don't forget Mum!!!! they're all brilliant and a lot more innovative than flippin' Dream Theatre
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Bryan
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Posted: January 16 2005 at 17:53 |
arcer wrote:
okay aqualung i just checked out their website - Mike Patton, cool - sounds like they're worth investigating.....
BTW - If Fantomas are prog, Mike Patton guested on vocals on the last Bjork album Medulla, Thom Yorke guested on vocals on Bjork's Dancer in the Dark soundtrack, therefore the conclusion is ......
Bjork is prog!!!!! Quick start a poll to get the wonky-voiced icelandic loony on the forum now!!!!
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Hahaha, I think someone actually brought up the idea of Bjork being prog awhile back.
Speaking of Icelandic musicians who should be on here, I'm still waiting on Sigur Ros...
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: January 16 2005 at 17:53 |
I also voted for Fantomas, amazing band.
But back to the point, Sweetnighter did you said a Punk band can play Progressive music???
Punk was born suposedly to destroy what progressive did to music, they did music based in 2 or 3 chords, they can't play progressive rock unless they do a cover album.
By the way, Progressive Rock is a genre, if not we lost most of our live until now.
Goose, you said: "try and equate Yes, ELP, Rush, Jethro Tull and Tangerine Dream!" they are different, that's why there are sub-genres like Symphonic. Neo Prog', Folk Prog, Fusion, Canterbury, Prog' Metal, etc.
Useful, you said: "Where did AC/DC come from? Surely you must admit that RH at least has more prog merrits than AC/DC..."
Of course, anybody has more prog merits than AC/DC but that means nothing.
Iván
Edited by ivan_2068
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arcer
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 01 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1239
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Posted: January 16 2005 at 17:51 |
okay aqualung i just checked out their website - Mike Patton, cool - sounds like they're worth investigating.....
BTW - If Fantomas are prog, Mike Patton guested on vocals on the last Bjork album Medulla, Thom Yorke guested on vocals on Bjork's Dancer in the Dark soundtrack, therefore the conclusion is ......
Bjork is prog!!!!! Quick start a poll to get the wonky-voiced icelandic loony on the forum now!!!!
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Bryan
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Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 01 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 3013
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Posted: January 16 2005 at 17:51 |
frenchie wrote:
if radiohead are in then that gives bands like muse, doves and elbow an equal chance cos they have the same amount of prog elements. but they dont get to be in so why shud radiohead? at the rate we're going AC/DC will be added next!
There has always been a strong wall between what is prog and what isnt and now that wall has been broken so tonnes of bands that have a slight prog element will probably be let in now.
they must have known that this would cause tonnes of controversy yet they went against what the people of this archive want and added them anyway. i thought it was reli respectful of them not to add them after the months and months of debate and now that they have i have lost faith in this site. |
You've lost faith in this site just because they added one band (a band you like, I might add) who you don't think should be in here???? As I said earlier, calm down!!!
What sets Radiohead apart from bands like Muse and Doves is that if you can find a Muse song that reaches the epic heights of Paranoid Android or Climbing up the Walls, or pushes the enevloppe of modern music in the way that Kid A did as an album, then I've evidently misjudged Muse greatly. Same goes for the Doves.
Where did AC/DC come from? Surely you must admit that RH at least has more prog merrits than AC/DC...
Aqualung, Muse is pretty much Radiohead without the daring experimentation that makes Radiohead so great.
Edited by Useful_Idiot
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aqualung28
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 03 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 916
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Posted: January 16 2005 at 17:51 |
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Btw, what does Muse sound like? I'm curious
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"O' lady look up in time o' lady look out of love
'n you should have us all
O' you should have us fall"
"Bill's Corpse" By Captain Beefheart
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frenchie
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 30 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2234
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Posted: January 16 2005 at 17:48 |
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if radiohead are in then that gives bands like muse, doves and elbow an equal chance cos they have the same amount of prog elements. but they dont get to be in so why shud radiohead? at the rate we're going AC/DC will be added next!
There has always been a strong wall between what is prog and what isnt and now that wall has been broken so tonnes of bands that have a slight prog element will probably be let in now.
they must have known that this would cause tonnes of controversy yet they went against what the people of this archive want and added them anyway. i thought it was reli respectful of them not to add them after the months and months of debate and now that they have i have lost faith in this site.
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The Worthless Recluse
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frosty
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 16 2005
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 120
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Posted: January 16 2005 at 17:47 |
I've always thought the biggest problem that some prog fans have is that they are insular and elitist. This thread has confimed this for me.
We should praise mainstream bands who stick their necks out and try to develop into something more challenging and progressive. Radiohead have certainly done this from the straight forward rock of Pablo Honey to the difficult to listen to (on first few hearings) Kid A and Amnesiac.
It would have been so easy to have stayed in the comfort zone created by OK Computer but Thom Yorke is far too inventive and realised that it would mean the end for Radiohead.
I have only come to this site in the last year and found groups like Voivod and Opeth who I was listening to in the 90's thinking they were thrash metal and found them to be included, on reflection I can see why they are included and don't have a problem with this.
A couple of years ago I remember Steve Hogarth on the radio comparing Marillion to Radiohead. Where does that leave the argument? Do we say that Marillion have gone in the opposite direction?
I cannot think of a current band that deserves the title of progressive rock more, even if they don't like the idea themselves.
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aqualung28
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 03 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 916
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Posted: January 16 2005 at 17:47 |
Well, they deserve it!
I thought now might be as good a time as any to start trying to get Fantomas in here. (Though my poll was largely ingored)
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"O' lady look up in time o' lady look out of love
'n you should have us all
O' you should have us fall"
"Bill's Corpse" By Captain Beefheart
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Bryan
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 01 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 3013
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Posted: January 16 2005 at 17:44 |
aqualung28 wrote:
Well they're in so there's no chance of removing them. But for the love of Prog put Fantomas in! |
Haha, you're pretty obsessed with Fantomas getting in here aren't you? Although I agree that they should be in, and I actually submitted a biography for them way back when incase they get added.
arcer, they're an experimental metal band fronted by Mike Patton (of Faith No More, Mr. Bungle, etc). Their debut is a concept album, and their new one Delirium Cordia is one 74 minute song.
Edited by Useful_Idiot
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arcer
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 01 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1239
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Posted: January 16 2005 at 17:44 |
who in God's name are Fantomas? - they sound like some sort of vaguely camp heavy metal band 
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aqualung28
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 03 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 916
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Posted: January 16 2005 at 17:43 |
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Well they're in so there's no chance of removing them. But for the love of Prog put Fantomas in!
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"O' lady look up in time o' lady look out of love
'n you should have us all
O' you should have us fall"
"Bill's Corpse" By Captain Beefheart
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arcer
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 01 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1239
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Posted: January 16 2005 at 17:42 |
y'see, people get upset cause they're a band that makes bold, radical statements and pushes the envelope just like ELP.....
DOH!!!!!! get 'em out by Friday!
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Bryan
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Joined: April 01 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 3013
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Posted: January 16 2005 at 17:36 |
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This has to be the most controversial band entry in progarchives history...
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