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Empathy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1864
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Posted: April 22 2006 at 23:56 |
Peter Rideout wrote:
(There are artists I don't like as well, but I don't really feel any need to list them, or ask for validation or approbation of my feelings. ![Smile](https://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley1.gif) )
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No, you're usually good about not naming names, but you _do_ indulge in some lighthearted fun at Prog Metal's expense... ![Wink](smileys/smiley2.gif)
As far as GG goes, it's been a long, slow road to appreciation of them
for me, but I _definitely_ do now. They were certainly fairly unique in
their overall approach and sound, although I do find them to repeat
some of their themes from time to time (but what band doesn't,
really?).
Certain albums are also more accessible than others. For example, I was
quite taken with about 3/4 of Octopus from the first moment I heard it.
I've had The Power And The Glory now for several months now, and I'm
finding that album to be more of a "creeper".
Edited by Empathy - April 23 2006 at 00:02
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Pure Brilliance:
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Posted: April 22 2006 at 21:47 |
The fact that you like spocks beard and you don't like gentle giant proves you aren't all there :P. I think a beginner should avoid Octopus and the debut album at the start. Go out and buy Power and the glory, Three friends, In a glass house and Freehand. That's a great start ;)
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Tenth Chaffinch
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Joined: April 22 2006
Location: Singapore
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Points: 203
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Posted: April 22 2006 at 21:30 |
Gentle Giant may not have the best vocals, but their instrumental prowess cannot be denied. In fact, I believe Phil Shulman had a lot to offer the band vocally and I always felt his vocals in songs like "Think Of Me With Kindness" and "Peel The Paint" were superb.
Gentle Giant is a band that is mainly directed at the obtuse-minded and (though I hate to say it) musical elitists.
I am a huge fan of the band, I can respect almost everything they ever put out (though Giant for A Day and Civilian are, in my opinion, weak efforts). I stand by the musicianship and spectacular compositional structures that have made Gentle Giant one of the most wonderful hidden treasures in all of progressive music.
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MustShaveBeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 20 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 366
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Posted: April 22 2006 at 14:57 |
GG hAv lyk n0 20 MynUt ePyKs! EEEWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!![Dead](https://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley11.gif)
Edited by MustShaveBeard - April 22 2006 at 14:58
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Your life or your lupins!!!
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RaphaelT
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Joined: August 17 2005
Location: Poland
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Points: 1453
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Posted: April 22 2006 at 14:51 |
Visitor13, you have your just right not to like Gentle Giant, although they were greater showmen than EL&P.
GhostRider, I haven't meet on charts a track with a tune as catchy as anything from Free Hand, to say nothing about Peter Hammill and VDGG.
And proggers can write catchy tunes, and great radio friendly singles, take for instance "Walking On Air" by KC
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yet you still have time!
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M. B. Zapelini
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Joined: June 21 2005
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 773
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Posted: April 22 2006 at 13:48 |
Visitor13 wrote:
M. B. Zapelini wrote:
Visitor13 wrote:
M. B. Zapelini wrote:
Visitor13 wrote:
They're excellent instrumentalists, but rarely write a decent tune. They're boring and lack inspiration. Their vocals are cheesy - I'd be able to cope with them if the songs were excellent, but they're not.
I'm aware that they are one of the most compositionally and instrumentally advanced bands in the archives. Well, it counts for nothing if you can't infuse your musical knowledge and capabilities with life. And GG rarely could bring a vibrant energy to their compositions, IMO. The impressive level of sophistication these compositions achieve doesn't make up for it. A shame really, since the concept behind the music is wonderful - only the execution is half of what it should be.
On the whole, I like Spock's Beard more. They're not as complex and much more poppy. And maybe this is why I find them better - because they're simpler they're more catchy. And they stay catchy, as well, while Gentle Giant stay average. A case of less is more.
Does anyone else agree with me?
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I'm just curious: did you listen carefully to all GG's albums? In case you didn't listen to their entire catalogue, which albums you have listened to?
Please note: I'm not saying that someone must listen to a band's entire catalogue to form an opinion about their music, I just want to know if you gave a good listen to "Acquiring the Taste", "In a Glass House", "Octopus", "Live - Playing the Fool", "Interview", "Three Friends" and "Free Hand", which are GG's finest albums IMHO. |
I listened to the first four and am familiar with some songs from "Three Friends" and "Free Hand". |
Oh well... Facing this, all I can say is: forget about Gentle Giant, you'll probably never like'em.
By the way, there's a mistake here, since "Three Friends" was actually GG's third album. Thanks for your answer. |
You've misunderstood me - I meant the first four albums you had mentioned - Acquiring the Taste", "In a Glass House", "Octopus", "Live - Playing the Fool". And it's not like they don't have their moments - but on the whole they simply don't convince me. |
OK, I think that we all know bands that eveyibody seems to like - everybody except ouselves! E.g., I do not like Supertramp - I gave them a good try, as you did with Gentle Giant, listening to all albums from the first to "Paris", and gave up - they're not my style.
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"He's a man of the past and one of the present"
PETER HAMMILL
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Visitor13
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Joined: February 02 2005
Location: Poland
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Points: 4702
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Posted: April 22 2006 at 13:41 |
M. B. Zapelini wrote:
Visitor13 wrote:
M. B. Zapelini wrote:
Visitor13 wrote:
They're excellent instrumentalists, but rarely write a decent tune. They're boring and lack inspiration. Their vocals are cheesy - I'd be able to cope with them if the songs were excellent, but they're not.
I'm aware that they are one of the most compositionally and instrumentally advanced bands in the archives. Well, it counts for nothing if you can't infuse your musical knowledge and capabilities with life. And GG rarely could bring a vibrant energy to their compositions, IMO. The impressive level of sophistication these compositions achieve doesn't make up for it. A shame really, since the concept behind the music is wonderful - only the execution is half of what it should be.
On the whole, I like Spock's Beard more. They're not as complex and much more poppy. And maybe this is why I find them better - because they're simpler they're more catchy. And they stay catchy, as well, while Gentle Giant stay average. A case of less is more.
Does anyone else agree with me?
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I'm just curious: did you listen carefully to all GG's albums? In case you didn't listen to their entire catalogue, which albums you have listened to?
Please note: I'm not saying that someone must listen to a band's entire catalogue to form an opinion about their music, I just want to know if you gave a good listen to "Acquiring the Taste", "In a Glass House", "Octopus", "Live - Playing the Fool", "Interview", "Three Friends" and "Free Hand", which are GG's finest albums IMHO. |
I listened to the first four and am familiar with some songs from "Three Friends" and "Free Hand". |
Oh well... Facing this, all I can say is: forget about Gentle Giant, you'll probably never like'em.
By the way, there's a mistake here, since "Three Friends" was actually GG's third album. Thanks for your answer. |
You've misunderstood me - I meant the first four albums you had mentioned - Acquiring the Taste", "In a Glass House", "Octopus", "Live - Playing the Fool". And it's not like they don't have their moments - but on the whole they simply don't convince me.
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M. B. Zapelini
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 21 2005
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 773
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Posted: April 22 2006 at 13:39 |
Visitor13 wrote:
M. B. Zapelini wrote:
Visitor13 wrote:
They're excellent instrumentalists, but rarely write a decent tune. They're boring and lack inspiration. Their vocals are cheesy - I'd be able to cope with them if the songs were excellent, but they're not.
I'm aware that they are one of the most compositionally and instrumentally advanced bands in the archives. Well, it counts for nothing if you can't infuse your musical knowledge and capabilities with life. And GG rarely could bring a vibrant energy to their compositions, IMO. The impressive level of sophistication these compositions achieve doesn't make up for it. A shame really, since the concept behind the music is wonderful - only the execution is half of what it should be.
On the whole, I like Spock's Beard more. They're not as complex and much more poppy. And maybe this is why I find them better - because they're simpler they're more catchy. And they stay catchy, as well, while Gentle Giant stay average. A case of less is more.
Does anyone else agree with me?
|
I'm just curious: did you listen carefully to all GG's albums? In case you didn't listen to their entire catalogue, which albums you have listened to?
Please note: I'm not saying that someone must listen to a band's entire catalogue to form an opinion about their music, I just want to know if you gave a good listen to "Acquiring the Taste", "In a Glass House", "Octopus", "Live - Playing the Fool", "Interview", "Three Friends" and "Free Hand", which are GG's finest albums IMHO. |
I listened to the first four and am familiar with some songs from "Three Friends" and "Free Hand". |
Oh well... Facing this, all I can say is: forget about Gentle Giant, you'll probably never like'em.
By the way, there's a mistake here, since "Three Friends" was actually GG's third album. Thanks for your answer.
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"He's a man of the past and one of the present"
PETER HAMMILL
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Visitor13
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Joined: February 02 2005
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 4702
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Posted: April 22 2006 at 13:33 |
M. B. Zapelini wrote:
Visitor13 wrote:
They're excellent instrumentalists, but rarely write a decent tune. They're boring and lack inspiration. Their vocals are cheesy - I'd be able to cope with them if the songs were excellent, but they're not.
I'm aware that they are one of the most compositionally and instrumentally advanced bands in the archives. Well, it counts for nothing if you can't infuse your musical knowledge and capabilities with life. And GG rarely could bring a vibrant energy to their compositions, IMO. The impressive level of sophistication these compositions achieve doesn't make up for it. A shame really, since the concept behind the music is wonderful - only the execution is half of what it should be.
On the whole, I like Spock's Beard more. They're not as complex and much more poppy. And maybe this is why I find them better - because they're simpler they're more catchy. And they stay catchy, as well, while Gentle Giant stay average. A case of less is more.
Does anyone else agree with me?
|
I'm just curious: did you listen carefully to all GG's albums? In case you didn't listen to their entire catalogue, which albums you have listened to?
Please note: I'm not saying that someone must listen to a band's entire catalogue to form an opinion about their music, I just want to know if you gave a good listen to "Acquiring the Taste", "In a Glass House", "Octopus", "Live - Playing the Fool", "Interview", "Three Friends" and "Free Hand", which are GG's finest albums IMHO. |
I listened to the first four and am familiar with some songs from "Three Friends" and "Free Hand".
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M. B. Zapelini
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 21 2005
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 773
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Posted: April 22 2006 at 13:30 |
Visitor13 wrote:
They're excellent instrumentalists, but rarely write a decent tune. They're boring and lack inspiration. Their vocals are cheesy - I'd be able to cope with them if the songs were excellent, but they're not.
I'm aware that they are one of the most compositionally and instrumentally advanced bands in the archives. Well, it counts for nothing if you can't infuse your musical knowledge and capabilities with life. And GG rarely could bring a vibrant energy to their compositions, IMO. The impressive level of sophistication these compositions achieve doesn't make up for it. A shame really, since the concept behind the music is wonderful - only the execution is half of what it should be.
On the whole, I like Spock's Beard more. They're not as complex and much more poppy. And maybe this is why I find them better - because they're simpler they're more catchy. And they stay catchy, as well, while Gentle Giant stay average. A case of less is more.
Does anyone else agree with me?
|
I'm just curious: did you listen carefully to all GG's albums? In case you didn't listen to their entire catalogue, which albums you have listened to?
Please note: I'm not saying that someone must listen to a band's entire catalogue to form an opinion about their music, I just want to know if you gave a good listen to "Acquiring the Taste", "In a Glass House", "Octopus", "Live - Playing the Fool", "Interview", "Three Friends" and "Free Hand", which are GG's finest albums IMHO.
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"He's a man of the past and one of the present"
PETER HAMMILL
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Visitor13
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Posted: April 22 2006 at 13:26 |
Ghost Rider wrote:
GG are not an easy listen, that's for sure. But isn't that what prog is about? If I were interested in catchy melodies, I would be spending money on high-charting records instead. Anyway, as Tony F. said, it's perfectly OK not to like bands. I'm no Dream Theater fan, and Genesis are far from my favourites ("Supper's Ready" does very little for me, I'm afraid) - but I don't see it as a problem. I just keep listening to what I like and trying other bands out. |
It's not about more vs less accessible - it's about complexity that fails vs simplicity that succeeds. Now, of course complexity doesn't always fail and simplicity doesn't always succeed - it's simply because one isn't inherently better than the other.
Soundspectrum: I believe Terra Australis wanted to say that GG sounds very coherent and their complexity is not jarring in any way; it doesn't really make itself heard.
Edited by Visitor13 - April 22 2006 at 13:28
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Visitor13
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Posted: April 22 2006 at 13:19 |
Only a few people responded in a belligerent manner, Peter. And this wasn't intended to be an offensive thread, but a provocative one. There is a difference, and most people noticed it.
I'm part of the group that doesn't believe in the inherent superiority of 70s' bands over 80s'/90s' ones. My preference of Spock's Beard is to illustrate this and no number of people who don't agree with me will change this preference. But I'd like to know just how outnumbered I am here ![LOL](https://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif) .
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Raff
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Joined: July 29 2005
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Points: 24429
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Posted: April 22 2006 at 13:16 |
GG are not an easy listen, that's for sure. But isn't that what prog is about? If I were interested in catchy melodies, I would be spending money on high-charting records instead. Anyway, as Tony F. said, it's perfectly OK not to like bands. I'm no Dream Theater fan, and Genesis are far from my favourites ("Supper's Ready" does very little for me, I'm afraid) - but I don't see it as a problem. I just keep listening to what I like and trying other bands out.
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soundspectrum
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Joined: September 14 2005
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Points: 201
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Posted: April 22 2006 at 13:09 |
Terra Australis wrote:
I don't see gentle Giant as being complex. Sure they use counterpoint in interesting ways, lots of different instruments and different time signatures, but it all fits into a cohesive whole which flows well and has dynamics and melody (perhaps not the sort used in pop music). The singers have passion, power and a delicate touch. It's not as if they use dissonances which grate and have 'noises' etc. to distract from the music.
I like Spocks Beard as well.
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hahahahahaha you dont see gentle giant as being complex???? then I suppose stravinsky is childs play too.
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mithrandir
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Posted: April 22 2006 at 13:06 |
Gentle Giant write fine tunes IMO, never had a problem getting into them, in fact I gravitate more towards their style then most traditional prog,
Edited by mithrandir - April 22 2006 at 13:07
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Peter
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Posted: April 22 2006 at 13:03 |
oscar wrote:
"There are artists I don't like as well, but I don't really feel any need to list them, or ask for affirmation of my feelings"
Then we stop the discussion again... |
Did I urge that? No, I did not. "Discuss" away!
Note my use of the word "I." It indicates that I am speaking of and for myself -- I did not say " you shouldn't list them," or " you should not need affirmation of your feelings."
F*ck!![Angry](https://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley7.gif) Quote someone else for a change, please folks! I'm not some censoring "boogy man." Like many others here, I just find such topics to be hugely subjective, needlessly confrontational, and largely pointless.
But please: discuss Gentle Giant vs Spock's Beard (WTF?) to your heart's content, oscar! And write lists all you like too -- some seem to think they make for interesting reading....![Big smile](https://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif)
To hell with this BS -- I'm going for a ride.
Edited by Peter Rideout - April 22 2006 at 13:09
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy.
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andYouandI45
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Joined: November 08 2005
Location: United States
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Points: 304
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Posted: April 22 2006 at 12:16 |
Oh awesome thanks for this topic. Nobody really cares about your personal opion that much.
Maybe I'll make my own thread about how much I hate Marrilion!
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Masque
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Posted: April 22 2006 at 11:34 |
I like Gentle Giant .. I do ... but I have one small problem with them ... the sweet spot , wheres their sweet spot ? I mean all great prog has a sweet spot somewhere ? I`m talking about melody in case you don`t get where I`m coming from . It just seems to me that when I take a bite into a Gentle Giant song instead of finding a caramel centre I end up getting mixed herbs instead
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oscar
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Joined: January 11 2006
Location: Norway
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Points: 74
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Posted: April 22 2006 at 11:25 |
There is a lot of prog artists that I like.... but I dont feel any need too list them, or discuss them at all
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Life is PROGRESSIVE
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oscar
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Joined: January 11 2006
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Posted: April 22 2006 at 11:20 |
"There are artists I don't like as well, but I don't really feel any need to list them, or ask for affirmation of my feelings"
Then we stop the discussion again...
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Life is PROGRESSIVE
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