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VanderGraafKommandöh 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
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Points: 89372
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 Posted: April 09 2006 at 16:40 |
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I stand corrected about Vital, I've listened to again and I have changed my mind about it, it's a great great live performance.
BaldFriede is right, it's a great live album, so much energy and musicianship. I think it was just a little to much for me on first listen, I was so used to the classic lineup, I made myself not like it.
Edited by Geck0 - September 07 2006 at 03:13
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ken4musiq
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 14 2006
Location: United States
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Points: 446
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Posted: April 09 2006 at 15:02 |
 BaldFriede wrote:
The Lost Chord wrote:
I love hammills vocals, though, sometimes they can get annoying and weird but mostly he is very unique and awesome, but why does he have to sing so visciously sometimes? It doesnt go with the songs sometimes i feel.
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On the contrary, it goes exactly with the songs. Just read the lyrics! He only raises his voice to the peak when the music reaches a peak too.
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I'm not a big VDGG fan, yet anyway. (But I know I will be.) His vocals are quite extaordinary and the odd mellodramatic flare seems to really enhance the alienation spoken about in some of the lyrics.
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Duncan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 23 2004
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Points: 180
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Posted: April 09 2006 at 15:01 |
kajkeron wrote:
SOMETIMES THE LYRICS ARE FAR TOO BOMBASTIC AND KITCHOUS ("This side of the looking glass"). |
Ooh, This Side of the Looking Glass. Now there's a track that's all about context.
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group
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Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
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Points: 37232
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Posted: April 09 2006 at 14:51 |
kajkeron wrote:
... ONLY SOMETIMES THE LYRICS ARE FAR TOO BOMBASTIC AND
KITCHOUS ("This side of the looking glass")...I WONDER IF PEOPLE FOR
WHOM ENGLISH IS A MOTHER LANGUAGE FEEL IT BETTER. I DON"T LIKE SOME OF
THE LYRICS, BUT IT DOESN'T DISTURB ME.
BUT IT"S REALLY HARD TO LISTEN SOME OF LYRICS IN LED ZEPPELIN OR DEEP PURPLE SONGS... |
Sure.. incidentally, I find shouting online rather bombastic, kitschy, and hard to 'listen to'. ;)
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kajkeron
Forum Newbie
Joined: April 07 2006
Location: Poland
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Points: 7
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Posted: April 09 2006 at 14:42 |
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Well, Van Der Graaf knocks out every other band with the exeption of KING CRIMSON!
I AM A VDGG-HAMMILL EXTREMIST, I love the music and his voice and all. ONLY SOMETIMES THE LYRICS ARE FAR TOO BOMBASTIC AND KITCHOUS ("This side of the looking glass"). I WONDER IF PEOPLE FOR WHOM ENGLISH IS A MOTHER LANGUAGE FEEL IT BETTER. I DON"T LIKE SOME OF THE LYRICS, BUT IT DOESN'T DISTURB ME.
BUT IT"S REALLY HARD TO LISTEN SOME OF LYRICS IN LED ZEPPELIN OR DEEP PURPLE SONGS...
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laplace
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 06 2005
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Points: 7606
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Posted: April 09 2006 at 14:39 |
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I like the way they can be very heavy, very floaty, very introspective and very jamming, sometimes all in one song. I didn't immediately hit it off with Peter Hammill's voice but it's worth perservering.
I tend to listen to VdGG mixed in with King Crimson, I find them to be mutually complimenting.
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Logan
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Posted: April 09 2006 at 14:19 |
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No intelligent, or well-informed comments from me as I've just gotten into the band recently.
Hammil's voice does remind me of Bowie's. I'm still not that
familiar with their work, but for a few days I've been listening to
House With No Door obsessively. That's the song that totally
hooked me -- Man-Erg is also getting much play. I expect that
I'll grow to love VDGG much as I did with Gentle Giant not too long
ago.
I'll buy H to H very soon.
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
Status: Offline
Points: 89372
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Posted: April 09 2006 at 13:03 |
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Who else could get away with the idiosyncratic:
"Fishes can't fly, fishes can't fly,
neither can I, neither can I"?
Those lyrics are almost cringeworthy, but Hammill knows this and gets away with it! As Friede rightly says, a lot of his work is tongue-in-cheek, but with serious overtones as well. Peter Hammill isn't a dark and brooding guy either from what I can tell, he's probably happier than Robert Fripp!
And seriously, I cannot even believe Hammill was ever as lonely and alienated as he says in his lyrics. Maybe in his youth, but I do not know, he may well have been in later life too. The music business does a funny thing to the psyche, but I cannot see it affecting him (or the rest of the band for that matter) all that much. He never wanted fame and fortune, or number one singles.
Edited by Geck0 - September 07 2006 at 03:11
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omri
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Israel
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Points: 1250
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Posted: April 09 2006 at 12:50 |
It seems lots of those who do not like VDGG got the courage to admit it in public here. Well, It's your taste and I'm O.K. with it even though I love them very much.
I started with PH's "Over" many years ago but only saw my first VDGG album two years ago (although I knew that there is such band with PH) so I took it (it was "pawn hearts") and fell in love from the first moment. It is true that at that time I was used to KC, Robert Wyatt (cuncuna - you gave me another reason to visit your country except for the beautiful nature), Talking heads and others so maybe I was ready for the weirdness of it. However in few months I got another 5 albums (H to He, Still life, World record, Godbluf & The least we .....) and love them all.
I do not agree with baldfriede that only over is dark, I think Hamill allways sing about lonliness. injustice, misery, love to someone who does'nt feel the same and so on. This is by definition dark lyrics and dark music and that is what I love about it. Baldfriede himself on a thread of dark music wrote about PH's "The fall of the house of Usher" (one of his favorites that he mention a lot and I'm trying to get it cause of his warm words) so we should be more consistent I guess.
For me in a very short time VDGG became one of my favorites with KC, Wyatt, PF, Genesys and few others.
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omri
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chamberry
Special Collaborator
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Joined: October 24 2005
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Points: 9008
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Posted: April 09 2006 at 11:39 |
BaldFriede wrote:
Well, this melodramatic and bombastic style is exactly what I love
about him. It helps to know that this is all tongue in cheek; Hammill
doesn't take himself seriously (that guy is full of humour, in fact).
Van der Graaf Generator are a funny band (shocking revelation), and
this over the top singing is a mockery (as are the dark lyrics, by the
way). You should have watched the long interview with Peter Hammill
that was online for a while; I'm not sure if it still is but can look
it up. But, as with all good comedians, there is some truth in all this
too; it is mockery, yes, but with meaning. The only really "dark" album of VdGG or PH is PH's solo album
"Over", and even here you will find some self-irony (just look at the
lyrics of "Crying Wolf").
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So that explains the lyrics in Killer...
Peter Hamill's vocals was the first thing I noticed the first time I
heard them and that strangness of his voice is the thing that dragged
me into the dark music of VDGG. I didn't liked Godbluff the first times
I heard it ,except The sleepwalkers, but when I got Pawn Hearts I
started liking the band more (the wierder the better!).
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Fritha
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 10 2005
Location: Finland
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Points: 471
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Posted: April 09 2006 at 11:31 |
Honestly, unless I had read so many negative opinions concerning Hammill's voice on forums like this one, I would never have realised that it is an acquired taste for so many! From the start I found his voice to have a wonderful tone to it and even the "vicious" side of it never bothered me in the least -geee, weren't most of us raised on a healthy diet of idiosyncratic rock voices, after all?! I mean, there are not that many Greg Lakes out there in the field of rock music... Peter Hammill's voice certainly doesn't seem all that radical to me, but hey, different strokes and all that. Perhaps me starting my prog journey with Rush kinda honed my ears to be open to pretty much everything in terms of vocals! 
What do I see in VdGG? A lot of dynamics, range and emotion. Also, the music is very visual -it would be a blast to direct music videos or some arty short movies to it! Or to use it as an inspirational tool to paintings, for example (now I've given myself an idea!). But really, I just prefer to get lost in it, and in fact I was just getting lost in "H To He..." when I spotted this thread.
Edited by Fritha
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I was made to love magic
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The Wizard
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 18 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 7341
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Posted: April 09 2006 at 10:48 |
avestin wrote:
I never had problems with his voice, I liked them since the begining and my wife as well. She also says it reminds her a bit of David Bowie.
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My mother said the exact same thing.
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The Wizard
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Joined: July 18 2005
Location: United States
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Points: 7341
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Posted: April 09 2006 at 10:47 |
Geck0 wrote:
He sends you on a rollercoaster of emotions and if you suffer from motion sickness, then he may just upset you.
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It's the best rollercoaster ever though!
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BaldFriede
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
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Points: 10266
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Posted: April 09 2006 at 05:13 |
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Well, this melodramatic and bombastic style is exactly what I love
about him. It helps to know that this is all tongue in cheek; Hammill
doesn't take himself seriously (that guy is full of humour, in fact).
Van der Graaf Generator are a funny band (shocking revelation), and
this over the top singing is a mockery (as are the dark lyrics, by the
way). You should have watched the long interview with Peter Hammill
that was online for a while; I'm not sure if it still is but can look
it up. But, as with all good comedians, there is some truth in all this
too; it is mockery, yes, but with meaning. The only really "dark" album of VdGG or PH is PH's solo album
"Over", and even here you will find some self-irony (just look at the
lyrics of "Crying Wolf").
Edited by BaldFriede
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 BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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avestin
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Posted: April 09 2006 at 05:09 |
^^^
I never had problems with his voice, I liked them since the begining and my wife as well. She also says it reminds her a bit of David Bowie.
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
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Points: 89372
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Posted: April 09 2006 at 05:03 |
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I really like his more brutal versions of Darkness 11/11, the studio version is far more sedate compared to the live versions and work a lot better. The only bit I miss from the live versions are the multi-tracked vocals in one point, but this really isn't an issue!
How do you propose Hammill should sing such wonderful lyrics? How would James LaBrie, Mikael Akerfeldt, Daniel Gildenlow or similar type singers handle them instead? Would they have the passion? Yes, maybe, but Peter Hammill wrote the lyrics, he is the best and only person worthy of singing such lyrics, he knows when to stress certain parts, he knows which parts to sing softly, or to go wild. That obviously applies to all lyricist/vocalists of course.
He sends you on a rollercoaster of emotions and if you suffer from motion sickness, then he may just upset you.
I can understand why people would have issue with his vocals, he's not easy on the ears by all means.
I don't remember ever having issues with his vocal style, but then I've been brought up on Bob Dylan, Leonard Cohen and Kate Bush!
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Tony Fisher
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 30 2005
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 967
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Posted: April 09 2006 at 04:51 |
BaldFriede wrote:
Tony Fisher wrote:
I have just spent an evening listening again to Pawn
Hearts and Godbluff, trying to work out why I never got into this band,
hoping enlightenment would come.
At
the end, all I have concluded is that Hugh Banton is a very fine
keyboards player, that Guy Evans is a talented drummer but that I
really cannot stand the band's music at all and that Hamill's vocals
are probably the worst of any prog singer I've heard.
So what DO the band's fans see in them??? I'm missing it completely.
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Tony, from your other posts it looks as if you are more into the more
melodic prog.
Correct!
VdGG are for some inexplicable reason listed under
"Symphonic Prog", but putting them under "Avantgarde" would fit them a
lot better (at least for their early albums; as I pointed out in another
post, it would be much better if artists could belong to more than just
one category or if albums instead of artists were put into categories).
People would at least know what to expect from them then.
Agreed - They're not symphonic IMO, bit that doesn't colour my view of them.
"Pawn Hearts", although a highly recommended album, is definitely the
wrong start for VdGG newbies (provided they are not into avantgarde
already). Try "Godbluff" first, it is much easier accessible.
I thought this was even worse than Pawn Hearts, actually!
As to Hammill having a bad voice: Definitely wrong. He can sing
absolutely beautifully and does when it fits the occasion (just listen
to the beginning of "Man-Erg"), and he has an incredible range of
voice, dynamically as well as pitchwise. He sings like he does
deliberately, to convey the emotions; his voice is probably the most
theatrical in prog. You may not like the way he uses his voice, but to
say it is "bad" is missing the point completely.
I didn't say he had a bad voice - it's the way he uses it that I don't like. He can sing OK, it's his melodramatic, bombastic style that irritates me.
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Winter Wine
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 12 2005
Location: Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 1140
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Posted: April 09 2006 at 04:50 |
Over the past week or so I have been constantly listening to Vdgg. I bought 'H to He..' ages ago and definately thought there was some cool stuff there but wasn't too into it (To put it simply), Last week though I took it back out and loved it, Listened to it three times just that night.
Then I took out my burned copy of 'Pawn Hearts' and fell in love with instantly (I'm listening to it right now!) The musicians are so incredible and I find Hammill absolutely extraordinary.
Vdgg are one of the most emotionally driven bands I've heard, So you either want to go there or you don't!!
Tony maybe you should just concentrate on one of those albums (Pawn Hearts? hehe) for a while, Get to know it, And then come back to it when you're in the mood, Mood's important with these guys.
Another thing is though, With most forms of progressive music it is essential to persevere, I mean if none of us did we'd most likely have no Progarchives to discuss the music. It's ok to push yourself a bit I feel, As long as you want to like the music.
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My computer's broke
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BaldFriede
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10266
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Posted: April 09 2006 at 04:30 |
The Lost Chord wrote:
I love hammills vocals, though, sometimes
they can get annoying and weird but mostly he is very unique and
awesome, but why does he have to sing so visciously sometimes? It doesnt go with the songs sometimes i feel. |
On the contrary, it goes exactly with the songs. Just read the lyrics!
He only raises his voice to the peak when the music reaches a peak too.
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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Rorro
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Joined: December 31 2005
Location: Uruguay
Status: Offline
Points: 508
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Posted: April 09 2006 at 04:22 |
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That didn't happen to me, i've been leisening to VDGG only since the last month, i have, Godbluff, Pawn Hearts, Still Life and and H To The Who Am The Only One, the first album i listened to is Godbluff, and i only listened to it 5 or 6 times, but i already love hamill's voice, really good music, very emotional, i think in two or three months it will be one of my favourite groups. But i think i was likely to like that stuff, be cause i like avant garde like henry cow or frank zappa.
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