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Empathy View Drop Down
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Points: 1864 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2006 at 20:33
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Sorry not offending, only an example which I hate as much as any normal human being:

Tristan Mulders: And what if any member changes his signature to:

(obvious Nazi flag deleted)

Would you find it offensive enough???????

Iván



Likely without even realizing it, you've just bolstered my point.

That is quite obviously a Nazi flag, which has understandably gained much power as an icon of evil. The swastika, as a symbol, however, existed LONG before Adolf Hitler. Symbols are powerful tools, but they must be combined with an ideology in order to be fully effective. I don't see anything in that signature that openly attempts to spread a particular ideology.

Here's what truly bothers me. Has anyone actually PM'ed or otherwise contacted DeepPhreeze to ASK him what the signature means to him? Or were the Thought Police immediately invoked?

This is my issue with "political correctness"... if any personal conviction or message that could _potentially_ offend is banned, what of any importance is left to say?

Certainly, the easy solution is to ban any direct religious or philosophical discussion from this forum (and that's what I suspect will continue to be the solution), but is that the right decision? I say no.
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Points: 7341 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2006 at 19:17

It's just words and a picture. If the satanic symbol offends you, don't join the religon. It's as simple as that. As far as the drug reference goes, If you make that go then make any reference to drugs in the forum forrbidden. I'll tell you right now there have been drug realted threads/post but they were allowed to stay. You have to keep it the same for the entire site.

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Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2006 at 18:53

^Trust a lawyer to go to ridiculous extremes, just to prove his point.

And here ends tha case for the prosecution, M'lud!
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Points: 19535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2006 at 17:45

Sorry not offending, only an example which I hate as much as any normal human being:

Tristan Mulders: And what if any member changes his signature to:

Image deleted by Iván eveb when nobody asked for it, the point was made and that is enough

Would you find it offensive enough???????

Iván



Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M
            
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Points: 27802 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2006 at 17:44
Well,I am a Christian and  I am not going to debate  if religious symbolism should be allowed on this site.

But I also was raised in a country where everyone is free to practice whatever religion they choose,and are free from prosecution because of it.


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Points: 1723 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2006 at 17:25

I cannot consider it is a offensive signature actually. What do you think about most covers of metal album than? Quite a few of those are demonic/satanic, would you like to see those removed from signatures as well?

I agree that if it is deliberatly insulting to groups by writing things that are hurting people than it should be removed but this banner does not.

 

 

Did you know that satanic cults actually were from origin not devil worshippers btw

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Points: 19535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2006 at 17:00
Originally posted by Empathy Empathy wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

There's one thing, I f I posted something like

JESUS LOVES YOU

JOHN 3:16

LONG LIVE TO THE POPE BENEDICTUS XVI



This wouldn't bother me in the slightest either.

Believe me, I'm a Catholic and believer, but a signature like this will bother me, because this forum is for people from every part of the world and every ethnic group. Some people may find offensive a relation to monotheism, others may hate Catholic Church (More than you believe, even some "so called Christians") I don't have the right to sell them my truth 24 hours a day.

There's also the perspective of the Atheists who with total right may believe this is at least discriminatory.

It's a slippery slope between political correctness and censorship, IMO. In the end, it's just words, images and ideas.

I always believe that there's freedom of belief unless I offend other persons, the problem i that my example is not offensive, but what if I sign "Torquemada is a saint and the Inquisition should be restored"? I'm sure the Jewish community among others will feel offended

Or what  if I use the symbol of the Templar Knights, I'm offending Moslems who were slaughtered by this so called defenders of Holy Land.

Well, using satanic symbols is offensive for most Christians and Catholics plus Jewish and Moslems, because is the symbol of all evil according to our beliefs.

About the "substance abuse" issue... to play "devil's advocate" (sorry Ivan) ...

to Snow Dog's point, where do we draw the line? Some substances are legal in some countries, and not in others.

Please Empathy don't pretend to be naive, the guy is not promoting the use of the drug for therapeutic purpose, he talks about it as the new order, this means illegal and irrestricted use.

I noticed the thread of the Danish cartoon images of Mohammed some months ago were also removed, I would object to this as well. I understand the concern was primarily about violent repercussions, but in an age with increasing censorship (at least in my country)  driven largely by religous fundamentalism, it appears we're easily cowed into submission these days.

I absolutely agree with the decision of removing those cartoons because  Who are we to attack the Profet of another religion?  Mohammed deserves the same respect we have for our Holy Men.

I don't believe in any inherent right of protection from being offended.

I don't believe in legal restrictions, IMO mentioning the word God in a school is alright if you limit this word to the believers and you don't force those who don't share the beliefs to praise God or be present at religion class. But that's freedom of choice, I'm a believer so I go to that class, if I'm not a believer, I don't go to that class.

But this signature is posted in an open forum and we should be carefull with offending any of the members.

There are discussions related to theology, but all of them have been civilized  plus posted in a determined Lounge, where those who don't care about Religion are free to visit it or not.

But this guy is not only making propaganda to Satanism, but promotimg the use of an illegal  (if not prescibed) drug as a way of life IN EVERY LOUNGE OF THIS FORUM, SO THERE'S NO WAY THAT WE CAN AVOID IT.

There are minors in this forum, is this the example we want to give? 

Where do we draw the line? Easy, every religious or political discussion should be restricted to the Non Music Related Lounge, taking good care that nobody offends any other person's beliefs.

Sean and I had a 10 page debate about Atheism against Religion, but there was not a single insult, we agreed in every moral issue, and anybody who didn't cared for that debate, simply didn't visited that thread.

Iván

Progtologist: Probably he refers to that musical site, I checked it and found many POSSIBLE references, so that's the reason why I didn't mentioned it before this post.

But Satan is Satan, here and in China



Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M
            
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Points: 27802 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2006 at 16:51
Before you all go jumping to conclusions(which I did myself),how do you know DMX doesn't stand for this:

http://www.dmxmusic.com/


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Points: 12600 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2006 at 14:23
Thanks Ivan



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Points: 1864 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2006 at 14:21
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

There's one thing, I f I posted something like

JESUS LOVES YOU

JOHN 3:16

LONG LIVE TO THE POPE BENEDICTUS XVI



This wouldn't bother me in the slightest either.

It's a slippery slope between political correctness and censorship, IMO. In the end, it's just words, images and ideas.

About the "substance abuse" issue... to play "devil's advocate" (sorry Ivan) ...

to Snow Dog's point, where do we draw the line? Some substances are legal in some countries, and not in others.

I noticed the thread of the Danish cartoon images of Mohammed some months ago were also removed, I would object to this as well. I understand the concern was primarily about violent repercussions, but in an age with increasing censorship (at least in my country)  driven largely by religous fundamentalism, it appears we're easily cowed into submission these days.


I don't believe in any inherent right of protection from being offended.

Just my $.02.
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Points: 19535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2006 at 13:34

There's one thing, I f I posted something like

JESUS LOVES YOU

JOHN 3:16

LONG LIVE TO THE POPE BENEDICTUS XVI

Someyting I would never do because I'm against music as propaganda for religious beliefs, something that I wrote ad nauseam even when it was about Christian messages.

Biut I'm sure the next day many Atheists or other religious persons from different beliefs will ask me too remove it with reason, because Religious Propaganda is for the Church.

Why doesn't something that is not only a pseudo religious believe but a symbol of everything against the religious beliefs of many members is admitted?

I abslolutely respect any confession or religion, but unti today I never read propaganda from Catholics, Christians, Moslems, Jewish or Buddhists. If we all respect others, why shouldn't we ask for the same respect?

I remember when John Päul II dies an a$$hole said "Thanks that moth**r Fuc**r died".

I said nothing, but people like Threefaytes with whom I was not vetry close befoire this sent me a message of support as many others members (except from the one I expeccted more), but I said nothing in the Forum.

But I believe if we should not make propaganda about our religion, people shouldn't do it about anti Religion as in this case (Not talking about Atheism which I respect a lot even when I disagree).

Iván

BTW Ivanfr0st, I found your signatuire hilarious, not offensive at all.



Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M
            
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Points: 67407 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2006 at 13:31
I was wondering, doesn't this thread offend drug users and satanists? 
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Points: 5308 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2006 at 13:30

Okay, I just got rid of it.

 -- Ivan
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Points: 1835 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2006 at 12:30
Originally posted by ivansfr0st ivansfr0st wrote:

Is my sig offensive too? I mean, it's kind of dreadful.

 -- Ivan

Not in the slightest, as far as I'm concerned.

 
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Points: 1835 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2006 at 12:27
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by Vompatti Vompatti wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by Fitzcarraldo Fitzcarraldo wrote:

Interesting that the complaint relates to the symbol but not to the mention of the drug DXM in the sig.

 

Thats because I never heard of it!



I've never heard about it either, but if it's illegal, I suppose that this particular signature should be removed just because of the drug reference, right?

It isn't illegal. Irs an over the counter drug which is used in chest medicines. Google it.

And even if ir was illegal, does that mean that we can't show pics of canabis leaves too?

Alcohol is illegal in most muslim countries, should we ban pics of beer here too?

 

Substance abuse should not be publicised in forum sigs though. Especially an over-the-counter drug that is abused by teenagers and can be dangerous:

QUOTE

In the early 1960’s dextromethorphan (DXM) replaced codeine as the primary active ingredient of cough suppressants on the market, in an attempt to bring down codeine dependency. Abuse of DXM became apparent as early as 1973, the over the counter cough medicines using DXM began making their medicines’ taste unpleasant as a way to discourage abuse.

DXM is a hallucinogen most closely associated with ketamine and PCP. Unlike any other hallucinogen, DXM has different levels of effects, known as “plateaus” with different effects that range from the “drunk” and “stoned” feeling of the first plateau to complete body/mind disillusion and hallucination of the fourth plateau. The risks of injury or death from DXM raise with the levels of usage, making DXM a very dangerous drug.

The risks  

  • Nausea, itchy skin, hallucinations, disorientation, and loss of motor skills are the primary risks from DXM

  • Even with a small dose, DXM impairs a user’s motor skills, at higher doses it causes the user to be completely immobile, making it a popular choice with rapists.

  • Like ecstasy, DXM impairs the body’s ability to control its temperature, DXM use can result in heatstroke, this risk is greatly increased when mixed with ecstasy.  

  • DXM can be highly addicting. Normal use of DXM greatly increases the chances of permanent injury and death.

  • Permanent serious brain damage can occur from DMX including: impaired memory, control of your behavior, learning, visual perception, and multi-sensory thinking as well as other permanent damage including: psychosis, limbic seizures, temporal lability and depression.

  • DXM can result in coma or death.

The signs

  • Someone on DXM will appear to be drunk or stoned.

  • A DXM user will most likely have trouble walking straight, and may have trouble speaking.

UNQUOTE

 
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Points: 7852 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2006 at 12:22
Originally posted by ivansfr0st ivansfr0st wrote:

Is my sig offensive too? I mean, it's kind of dreadful.

It's not offensive, it's only too large.
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Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2006 at 12:03
Originally posted by ivansfr0st ivansfr0st wrote:

Is my sig offensive too? I mean, it's kind of dreadful.

 -- Ivan

I don't personally like it, but i wouldn't say it was offensive.
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Points: 5308 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2006 at 12:00

Is my sig offensive too? I mean, it's kind of dreadful.

 -- Ivan
sig
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Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2006 at 11:44
Originally posted by Vompatti Vompatti wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by Fitzcarraldo Fitzcarraldo wrote:

Interesting that the complaint relates to the symbol but not to the mention of the drug DXM in the sig.

 

Thats because I never heard of it!



I've never heard about it either, but if it's illegal, I suppose that this particular signature should be removed just because of the drug reference, right?

It isn't illegal. Irs an over the counter drug which is used in chest medicines. Google it.

And even if ir was illegal, does that mean that we can't show pics of canabis leaves too?

Alcohol is illegal in most muslim countries, should we ban pics of beer here too?



Edited by Snow Dog
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Points: 13536 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2006 at 11:37
Originally posted by Vompatti Vompatti wrote:


Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by Fitzcarraldo Fitzcarraldo wrote:


Interesting that the complaint relates to the symbol but not to the mention of the drug DXM in the sig.


 



Thats because I never heard of it!

I've never heard about it either, but if it's illegal, I suppose that this particular signature should be removed just because of the drug reference, right?


I never heard of this drug before either but if that's the case then I agree that the signature should be removed. But only because of the drug reference.
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