Scientist vs. Audiophile

This may in fact be the most exasperating thread in history!

If one were to go through and read all the posts (excluding olivers, because they are just opinionated drivel with no back-up), it would seem that it still really all comes down to a matter of opinion.  The fact is that digital audio at 44kHz-16-bit reproduces the analog sound very very well, but NOT exactly, and that expensive audio equipment improves sound, but only very slightly.  it comes down to whether you think that tiny tiny difference is worth paying out the nose to fix. 

In my own personal, humble opinion, it is not.  I'm going to have to stand behind mike on this one.

Lindsay Lohan wrote: Yes i understand the sampling theorem but i just took it as an example and yes i know that 15 000hz is high pitched but it remember that there is also these high pithced frequencys that make the guitar sound like a real guitar! And dont underestimate the human ear! It can hear a difference in frequency of just 2hz!

That depends on the actual frequency range:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychoacoustics

I'm willing to bet that nobody can distinguish 15,000hz and 15,002hz.

Yes i understand the sampling theorem but i just took it as an example and yes i know that 15 000hz is high pitched but it remember that there is also these high pithced frequencys that make the guitar sound like a real guitar!

And dont underestimate the human ear! It can hear a difference in frequency of just 2hz!

Lindsay Lohan wrote: Ah so you are saying that we cant hear distortion above 15khz?

No, I'm saying that the distortions of the 15khz sine waveform are typically much higher in frequency than the waveform itself - like 2 or 3 times higher. And these are well beyond our perception.

Remember that 15khz is a really high pitched sound. It is not a musical note - more like the typical sound which diseminates from some TV sets. Or like some Tinnitus sounds like the ones that you hear in games like Counter-Strike: Source when a grenade explodes right in front of you.

Lindsay Lohan wrote: Besides take forexample the sampling frequency that has to be twice the sound we want to sample for it to sound decent although we cant forexample hear 40 000hz

You might want to read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyquist-Shannon_sampling_theore m

You don't seem to get the idea.

Lindsay Lohan wrote: Well as i said is that when the frequency components at higher frequencys begin to distort it will have something to say about how the overall experience is felt.

I explained it above - the distortion is in a frequency range that we cannot hear. Sad (for your theory) but true!

Lindsay Lohan wrote: Remember sound is much more than what we can hear!

Maybe ... but that is a metaphysical discussion. Wenn discussing hifi systems I try to limit the discussion to the things that we can hear.

Well as i said is that when the frequency components at higher frequencys begin to distort it will have something to say about how the overall experience is felt.

Remember sound is much more than what we can hear!

Lindsay Lohan wrote: Ah well as we all know what make's a trumpet sound like a trumpet is the different frequency components that is compiled by the brain and then put together and then produce the sound which we all know as a trumpet. However as i said before Vinyl recordings can reproduce the different components too a much larger degree than cd at 16bit/44,1khz can. As you say a guitar has a max groun tone is 3700hz approximately but its harmonic overtones can range at a much larger scale even above 15 000hz!

As can the CD ... it reaches up to 22,000hz, just like the human ear. Well, actually well BEYOND the human ear. 20,000hz is the maximum, typically only reached by very young people.

Lindsay Lohan wrote: But all in all its up to the listener to deceide if you think this sound better or worse, more dynamic and so on...there is no scientific formula or fact that can prove that this sollution sounds better than the other because it is the Brain that compiles these sounds and the human brain is fairly complex

Yes - in fact the brain is so complex that it even combines the actual perceptions with our own experience and expectations. So sometimes we believe what we want to believe ... that makes it extremely different to remain objective. Do you honestly believe that somebody who spent $20,000 on a hifi system can actually have an objective opinion on the difference between his system and a cheap one?

Edited by MikeEnRegalia

Ah well as we all know what make's a trumpet sound like a trumpet is the different frequency components that is compiled by the brain and then put together and then produce the sound which we all know as a trumpet. However as i said before Vinyl recordings can reproduce the different components too a much larger degree than cd at 16bit/44,1khz can. As you say a guitar has a max groun tone is 3700hz approximately but its harmonic overtones can range at a much larger scale even above 15 000hz!

But all in all its up to the listener to deceide if you think this sound better or worse, more dynamic and so on...there is no scientific formula or fact that can prove that this sollution sounds better than the other because it is the Brain that compiles these sounds and the human brain is fairly complex

Trumpet is hard to reproduce.
And Cd shows its (short) limits there.
I find it rather sad than funny...

That would be hard in your case!