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Topic Closedbest form of govt

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Poll Question: which form do you support and why?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
19 [32.76%]
6 [10.34%]
11 [18.97%]
6 [10.34%]
1 [1.72%]
2 [3.45%]
2 [3.45%]
1 [1.72%]
3 [5.17%]
7 [12.07%]
This topic is closed, no new votes accepted

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Vompatti View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 12:09




...but seriously, I really don't know.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 11:13

Okay, government sucks and that is my opinion. I am against government, I don't like the concept of it, and I think it steals from citizens. It puts restrictions on our true opinions (well, those of us who are smart enough to have them), and it makes our society stricter and more angry towards those who have unconventional careers, drop out of school, etc.
But the truth is, humans are too stupid for anarchism. If we lived in anarchy we would have the world blown to bits in a week. We, generally as a species, need to be ruled by someone or something. We need to have government just like we need to have religion; it is one of the things that makes up society and allows us to fulfill something when we have nothing else to do. It's sad in a way, that we can never be free from our own failures and faults, such as war and destruction of our countries, and will never be able to have peace because of what we are.  We cannot escape ourselves.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2006 at 16:52
Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

Originally posted by king volta king volta wrote:

Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

Germany is both a republic and a democracy. The seperation of the 3 powers is part of the German constitution, and the word "republic" even appears in the full name of Germany, "Federal Republic of Germany". These two terms do not exclude each other at all.

speaking of--how is germany's government? does it hold up well or what?


In our opinion it sucks. The problem is: No matter whom we would have voted, it would still have sucked. Politicians all fail to see the real problems. Or if they do they don't see the real solution. Though it is not as if there are no solutions around; there are a lot of interesting models for solving the main problems. But they are all "utopian". No-one dares to make some real changes to the basic system.

It's interesting to find out how that comes. Trapped in a machinery, or power that corrupts, or you have to have a real strong personality as well as good ideas...

In the '80's there were big protests in Holland against the use of nuclear power. The government offered a broad discussion for everyone. The protesters could choose: either they accepted the offer to participate in the organised discussion, or they didn't. If they did, they had to adapt themselves a bit to the discussion as presented by the government. If they didn't, they would keep their independence, but lose influence. It split the group of protesters eventually in two, and the discussion provided the nation with a big report, which collected dust on some peoples book shelves.

Just an example to show how ideals can be transformed in the political machine.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2006 at 16:18
Originally posted by king volta king volta wrote:

Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

Germany is both a republic and a democracy. The seperation of the 3 powers is part of the German constitution, and the word "republic" even appears in the full name of Germany, "Federal Republic of Germany". These two terms do not exclude each other at all.

speaking of--how is germany's government? does it hold up well or what?


In our opinion it sucks. The problem is: No matter whom we would have voted, it would still have sucked. Politicians all fail to see the real problems. Or if they do they don't see the real solution. Though it is not as if there are no solutions around; there are a lot of interesting models for solving the main problems. But they are all "utopian". No-one dares to make some real changes to the basic system.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2006 at 14:48

Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

Germany is both a republic and a democracy. The seperation of the 3 powers is part of the German constitution, and the word "republic" even appears in the full name of Germany, "Federal Republic of Germany". These two terms do not exclude each other at all.

speaking of--how is germany's government? does it hold up well or what?

I'm a reasonable man, get off my case
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2006 at 14:37
republic=democracy. You cant have an undemocratic republic. But you can get democratically elected tyrannies.
I talk to the wind... It tells me to burn things
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2006 at 14:36

I do believe in Montesquieu's trias politica, even though I think that most democracies don't have that in a pure form.

I think every political system has it's weak spots, but democracy seems to me the least harmful. I think one of the main dangers in democracy is that any idiot with charisma can become the nation's powerful man / woman.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2006 at 14:14
Germany is both a republic and a democracy. The seperation of the 3 powers is part of the German constitution, and the word "republic" even appears in the full name of Germany, "Federal Republic of Germany". These two terms do not exclude each other at all.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2006 at 13:54
Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

Originally posted by king volta king volta wrote:

well, i was usuing each like so:

democracy has the three branches (basically the US govt)

and republic as elected ambassadors end etc. a democracy without 3 specific branches.

i find a huge flaw in democracies. it all depends on human value but, in a democracy the government is given too much power on the get-go--or else the US democracy wouldn't have ever become as corrupt as it is. there is the ability to, within the "constitution", change whatever officials don't like. it began as a well-meant system (in my opinion, and i'm only 16 so i doubt many people will take me seriously) and has deteriorated into a corrupt, limited (rights...), and politician controlled system. it annoys me to such a point that i already plan to move outside of the country as soon as i can. the only still barely intact is freedom of religion.

perhaps i am young and dumb. who knows. still, all the better for people to answer this poll. educate me.


that's not the definition of them though.
re·pub·lic   Audio pronunciation of "republic" ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (r-pblk)
n.
    1. A political order whose head of state is not a monarch and in modern times is usually a president.
    2. A nation that has such a political order.
    1. A political order in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who are entitled to vote for officers and representatives responsible to them.
    2. A nation that has such a political order.

de·moc·ra·cy   Audio pronunciation of "democracy"  P   Pronunciation Key  (d-mkr-s)
n. pl. de·moc·ra·cies
()
  1. Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives.
  2. A political or social unit that has such a government.
  3. The common people, considered as the primary source of political power.
  4. Majority rule.
  5. The principles of social equality and respect for the individual within a community.
You can see that these definitions partially overlap.


yeah.

that's not what they teach in the textbooks though. i should've known when they defined anarchy as "lawlessness and disorder" which it isn't at all. hold on and i'll look up teh definitions in my current tetbook.

republic- supported in Rosseau's book The Social Contract, which states that the government should be ruled by the people, not the people by the government.

democracy- a form of government which applies seperation of powers among the three branches of goverment; the executive, legislative, and judicial branches. This form of government met it's origins in Montesquieu's book The Spirit of the Law.

so there you go. Textbook's suck i suppose.

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2006 at 10:38
Originally posted by king volta king volta wrote:

well, i was usuing each like so:

democracy has the three branches (basically the US govt)

and republic as elected ambassadors end etc. a democracy without 3 specific branches.

i find a huge flaw in democracies. it all depends on human value but, in a democracy the government is given too much power on the get-go--or else the US democracy wouldn't have ever become as corrupt as it is. there is the ability to, within the "constitution", change whatever officials don't like. it began as a well-meant system (in my opinion, and i'm only 16 so i doubt many people will take me seriously) and has deteriorated into a corrupt, limited (rights...), and politician controlled system. it annoys me to such a point that i already plan to move outside of the country as soon as i can. the only still barely intact is freedom of religion.

perhaps i am young and dumb. who knows. still, all the better for people to answer this poll. educate me.


that's not the definition of them though.
re·pub·lic   Audio pronunciation of "republic" ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (r-pblk)
n.
    1. A political order whose head of state is not a monarch and in modern times is usually a president.
    2. A nation that has such a political order.
    1. A political order in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who are entitled to vote for officers and representatives responsible to them.
    2. A nation that has such a political order.

de·moc·ra·cy   Audio pronunciation of "democracy"  P   Pronunciation Key  (d-mkr-s)
n. pl. de·moc·ra·cies
()
  1. Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives.
  2. A political or social unit that has such a government.
  3. The common people, considered as the primary source of political power.
  4. Majority rule.
  5. The principles of social equality and respect for the individual within a community.
You can see that these definitions partially overlap.



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2006 at 09:31
Thomas Payne, one of the American revolutionaries (although he was English) once said: "all Government is a theft", maybe he inspired the anarchist Proudhon that said: "all property is a theft". Perhaps "anarchism", not anarchy, should be the future form of society organization, if we don't perish before reaching this status.
Guigo

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2006 at 23:38

well, i was usuing each like so:

democracy has the three branches (basically the US govt)

and republic as elected ambassadors end etc. a democracy without 3 specific branches.

i find a huge flaw in democracies. it all depends on human value but, in a democracy the government is given too much power on the get-go--or else the US democracy wouldn't have ever become as corrupt as it is. there is the ability to, within the "constitution", change whatever officials don't like. it began as a well-meant system (in my opinion, and i'm only 16 so i doubt many people will take me seriously) and has deteriorated into a corrupt, limited (rights...), and politician controlled system. it annoys me to such a point that i already plan to move outside of the country as soon as i can. the only still barely intact is freedom of religion.

perhaps i am young and dumb. who knows. still, all the better for people to answer this poll. educate me.

I'm a reasonable man, get off my case
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2006 at 22:53
"democracy" and "republic" are not exclusive terms. there are republics that are democracies. Germany, for example


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2006 at 22:27
i know a few are dated and i left soem out because they are endless and i didn't wanna make it huge. that's why the 'other' option is there. please explain yourself. as for me, i'll wait a while before i tell you my beliefs.
I'm a reasonable man, get off my case
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