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Garion81 
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Joined: May 22 2004
Location: So Cal, USA
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Points: 4338
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 Posted: October 06 2005 at 11:44 |
 maidenrulez wrote:
And i see it as important that we maiden to the archives to listen to where most prog-metal bands got their influences from..afterall that is what is the point of the proto-prog genre right 
I also see maiden as the first real prog metal band there ever was...and dont bring me Deep Purple,Black Sabbath and Zeppelin and all those...they are bascially just hard rock bands...
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First of you need to read the definiton of proto-prog. It sstates bands that were formed or did the majority of their work prior to 1969. I hardely think Iron Maiden fits into that.
I will bring those other bands because without that foundation you would have no Iron Maiden or any other metal band that came in the 80's.
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
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Citanul
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Joined: June 14 2005
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 430
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Posted: October 06 2005 at 03:58 |
bluetailfly wrote:
As a Maiden fan, I don't want them
to be prog-related. Why throw in with Anderson, Phil Collins, Ambrosia?
They don't want to be there; they don't want to be "related" to them.
They want something else.
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I'm not so sure about that. I seem to remember reading something
along the lines of Steve Harris wanting to form a prog band, but in the
late 70's there would have been very little support for them, given the
rise of punk. Bruce Dickinson said that with the Chemical Wedding
he wanted to make an album that could stand alongside any prog concept
album, as well as any decent metal album. So, while they're a
metal band, I don't think they would reject the prog idea
completely. Also, Harris and Dickinson are both big Tull fans,
and Maiden did a cover of Cross-Eyed Mary.
Useful_Idiot wrote:
As Garion already mentioned, Maiden is still under conisderation.
It's a tough call, there's no question that they've influenced tons of
prog-metal bands. My vote is against them though, there are
countless other influential metal bands who've had some very proggy
moments despite being far from prog bands. If we add Maiden, it
opens the door for tons of other non-prog metal bands.
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But the same argument could be made against any of the artists in the
Proto-Prog or Prog-Related categories (and in fact has been made in
some cases). Iron Maiden certainly aren't a prog-metal band, but
they've probably had more proggy moments than any other metal band that
isn't considered prog-metal, and that certainly makes them worthy of
inclusion in the Prog-Related category
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Be or be not. There is no question. - Yoda, Prince of Denmark
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Lindsay Lohan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2005
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 3254
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Posted: October 06 2005 at 03:15 |
And i see it as important that we maiden to the archives to listen to where most prog-metal bands got their influences from..afterall that is what is the point of the proto-prog genre right
I also see maiden as the first real prog metal band there ever was...and dont bring me Deep Purple,Black Sabbath and Zeppelin and all those...they are bascially just hard rock bands...
And why the obviosly stupid comparisment to AC/DC wich is the least original band on this earth...Britney spears is strikingly more progressive than AC/DC wich is a horrible band that truly goes way beyond the definiton of crap...
Please people listen to a song like forexample The unbelivier and tell me that is not prog...
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Lindsay Lohan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2005
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 3254
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Posted: October 06 2005 at 03:08 |
Useful_Idiot wrote:
As Garion already mentioned, Maiden is still under conisderation. It's a tough call, there's no question that they've influenced tons of prog-metal bands. My vote is against them though, there are countless other influential metal bands who've had some very proggy moments despite being far from prog bands. If we add Maiden, it opens the door for tons of other non-prog metal bands. |
And you say you have not already done so by including Kamelot, Queensryche and Nightwish?
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Bryan
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Joined: April 01 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 3013
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Posted: October 06 2005 at 01:17 |
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As Garion already mentioned, Maiden is still under conisderation.
It's a tough call, there's no question that they've influenced tons of
prog-metal bands. My vote is against them though, there are
countless other influential metal bands who've had some very proggy
moments despite being far from prog bands. If we add Maiden, it
opens the door for tons of other non-prog metal bands.
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Kohllapse
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 14 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1063
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Posted: October 06 2005 at 00:38 |
bluetailfly wrote:
Kohllapse wrote:
bluetailfly wrote:
Hey, I appreciate your devotion to "the Maiden," but I have to tell you, I think you're fighting an extremely uphill battle with this one. Genre's are loosely defined boundaries, but they are still that---boundaries.
Iron Maiden fits too closely into another genre. My question to you is, "why do you care if they get recognized as prog or not? What "mantle of authority" does having it classified as "prog rock" add to the band?" They need no help from the prog world. They rock their own world better than any prog band will ever rock the prog world. Revel in that, give them that. And tell the lean-built "Soft Machine" fans that they'll never experience this kind of stuff. And then proceed to play electric guitar out of a distorted practice amp
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Perhaps you were unclear on what I meant by "I disagree".  What I disagree with is saying "completly not prog" I never said they were, if you would have read all of the post in this thread you would know that.I said they could be put in the "Proto prog"
"you're right , you never said they should be put in the "prog metal"category, only that they should be added to the site . With all of the different "genre" categories available i'm sure that they would fit in one of them. "
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But what you say sort of begs the same question. Why? And I have no real stake in the matter either. I am just honestly wondering why having them seen as "prog-related" matters. I wouldn't want AC/DC classified as prog-related, even though I suppose one could mount an argument for it (a skilled orator). As a Maiden fan, I don't want them to be prog-related. Why throw in with Anderson, Phil Collins, Ambrosia? They don't want to be there; they don't want to be "related" to them.
They want something else. |
    
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bluetailfly
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 28 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1383
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Posted: October 06 2005 at 00:17 |
Kohllapse wrote:
bluetailfly wrote:
Hey, I appreciate your devotion to "the Maiden," but I have to tell you, I think you're fighting an extremely uphill battle with this one. Genre's are loosely defined boundaries, but they are still that---boundaries.
Iron Maiden fits too closely into another genre. My question to you is, "why do you care if they get recognized as prog or not? What "mantle of authority" does having it classified as "prog rock" add to the band?" They need no help from the prog world. They rock their own world better than any prog band will ever rock the prog world. Revel in that, give them that. And tell the lean-built "Soft Machine" fans that they'll never experience this kind of stuff. And then proceed to play electric guitar out of a distorted practice amp
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Perhaps you were unclear on what I meant by "I disagree". What I disagree with is saying "completly not prog" I never said they were, if you would have read all of the post in this thread you would know that.I said they could be put in the "Proto prog"
"you're right , you never said they should be put in the "prog metal"category, only that they should be added to the site . With all of the different "genre" categories available i'm sure that they would fit in one of them. "
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But what you say sort of begs the same question. Why? And I have no real stake in the matter either. I am just honestly wondering why having them seen as "prog-related" matters. I wouldn't want AC/DC classified as prog-related, even though I suppose one could mount an argument for it (a skilled orator). As a Maiden fan, I don't want them to be prog-related. Why throw in with Anderson, Phil Collins, Ambrosia? They don't want to be there; they don't want to be "related" to them.
They want something else.
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"The red polygon's only desire / is to get to the blue triangle."
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Kohllapse
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 14 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1063
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Posted: October 06 2005 at 00:03 |
bluetailfly wrote:
Hey, I appreciate your devotion to "the Maiden," but I have to tell you, I think you're fighting an extremely uphill battle with this one. Genre's are loosely defined boundaries, but they are still that---boundaries.
Iron Maiden fits too closely into another genre. My question to you is, "why do you care if they get recognized as prog or not? What "mantle of authority" does having it classified as "prog rock" add to the band?" They need no help from the prog world. They rock their own world better than any prog band will ever rock the prog world. Revel in that, give them that. And tell the lean-built "Soft Machine" fans that they'll never experience this kind of stuff. And then proceed to play electric guitar out of a distorted practice amp
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Maybe I wasnt clear on what I meant by "I disagree". What I disagree with is saying "completly not prog" I never said they were, if you would have read all of the post in this thread you would know that.I said they could be put in the "Proto prog"
"you're right , you never said they should be put in the "prog metal"category, only that they should be added to the site . With all of the different "genre" categories available i'm sure that they would fit in one of them. "
Edited by Kohllapse
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bluetailfly
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 28 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1383
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Posted: October 05 2005 at 23:40 |
Hey, I appreciate your devotion to "the Maiden," but I have to tell you, I think you're fighting an extremely uphill battle with this one. Genre's are loosely defined boundaries, but they are still that---boundaries.
Iron Maiden fits too closely into another genre. My question to you is, "why do you care if they get recognized as prog or not? What "mantle of authority" does having it classified as "prog rock" add to the band?" They need no help from the prog world. They rock their own world better than any prog band will ever rock the prog world. Revel in that, give them that. And tell the lean-built "Soft Machine" fans that they'll never experience this kind of stuff. And then proceed to play electric guitar out of a distorted practice amp
Edited by bluetailfly
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"The red polygon's only desire / is to get to the blue triangle."
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Kohllapse
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 14 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1063
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Posted: October 05 2005 at 23:30 |
Borealis wrote:
Unless there's a 'Completly not prog' section in PA, they shouldn't be here.
Still wan't to debate that once again? I really am sick of that... |
I disagree!
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Borealis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 06 2005
Location: Neutral Zone
Status: Offline
Points: 599
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Posted: October 05 2005 at 19:23 |
Unless there's a 'Completly not prog' section in PA, they shouldn't be here.
Still wan't to debate that once again? I really am sick of that...
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Vive le Québec libre!...
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Garion81
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 22 2004
Location: So Cal, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4338
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Posted: October 05 2005 at 18:01 |
IM is under consideration as of yesterday. Kollapse if you sent one two weeks ago it was eiter incomplete or Max did not foward it to the new address. Anyway regardless should have a decsion on this in the next week.
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
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Ed_The_Dead
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 29 2005
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 4928
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Posted: October 05 2005 at 17:27 |
Great Sig, Kohl...  Just listening 2 the Perfect Element again... Totally love that album... 
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Kohllapse
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 14 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1063
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Posted: October 05 2005 at 17:04 |
maidenrulez wrote:
lucas wrote:
maiden had a huge influence on bands like queensryche and fates warning, but I doubt they would like themselves to be qualified as a prog band.
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ah they are atleast PROG RELATED whic was the genre i wanted them under |
 you're right , you never said they should be put in the "prog metal"category, only that they should be added to the site . With all of the different "genre" categories available i'm sure that they would fit in one of them.
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Ed_The_Dead
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Joined: April 29 2005
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 4928
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Posted: October 05 2005 at 16:59 |
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Lindsay Lohan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2005
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 3254
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Posted: October 05 2005 at 16:54 |
lucas wrote:
maiden had a huge influence on bands like queensryche and fates warning, but I doubt they would like themselves to be qualified as a prog band.
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ah they are atleast PROG RELATED whic was the genre i wanted them under
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lucas
Special Collaborator
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Joined: February 06 2004
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 8138
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Posted: October 05 2005 at 16:51 |
maiden had a huge influence on bands like queensryche and fates warning, but I doubt they would like themselves to be qualified as a prog band.
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"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
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Ed_The_Dead
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Joined: April 29 2005
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 4928
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Posted: October 05 2005 at 16:42 |
Maiden's work was more inpiring then works of lets say, Queensryche...
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Lindsay Lohan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2005
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 3254
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Posted: October 05 2005 at 16:37 |
Cygnus X-1 wrote:
yes i was refering to 7th son. But maiden just aren't prog. at all. All the songs sound the same, a bit like all AC/DC or Motorhead, that aint progressive thats sticking to a trend.Hardly any Yes songs sound similar. |
First of all i just love ROGER CHAPMAN he is a fantastic vocalist and i love his works with mike batt and mike oldfield...that said that is a bit arrogant of you to compare AC/DC and motorhead...compare songs like blood brothers to prowler to sign of the cross to the unbelivier and prodigal son if you may and if you find any similarities i will be very delighted to hear them...obviously you are one of those people wich has heard very little of maiden...and if you really has hear alot on them and still say that all the songs sound similar i think i can never take you seriously..i can no problem name 50 songs out of maiden wich is clearly more progressive than any of FAMILY's work...besides maiden is the first prog metal band there ever was and has inspired alot of the prog metal bands we have here today
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Ed_The_Dead
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 29 2005
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 4928
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Posted: October 05 2005 at 16:33 |
Please tell me that albums like Killers, Somewhere in time, 7th Son, The X Factor, Brave New World & Dance of Death Sound the same?!
And comparing them 2 Motorhead or Ac/dc is ignorant
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