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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 20671
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Posted: November 27 2015 at 16:59 |
The T wrote:
I have believed in God in the past. Now I just donīt know. I donīt believe God exists, but I donīt pretend to be able to affirm it with 100% certainty. I leave that to the geniuses who have all the answers already, some really young but who have already figured the entire universe out. |
Well said. I'm agnostic for a long time now , but there were times in the past where I used Eastern spiritual ideologies and was raised to believe in God (Presbyterian) , so I keep the options open as I go through life. I simply don't know .
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: November 27 2015 at 10:43 |
I have believed in God in the past. Now I just donīt know. I donīt believe God exists, but I donīt pretend to be able to affirm it with 100% certainty. I leave that to the geniuses who have all the answers already, some really young but who have already figured the entire universe out.
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20436
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Posted: November 27 2015 at 09:42 |
DDPascalDD wrote:
Not really hostility per se, and maybe less welcome is a big word, it's in little things. Topics like songs for theists not taken seriously, that sort of things. |
I really don't think so...  First, we're here for music  , not for proselyte reasons  ... so this subject is hardly a focus of the site  ... Except in one or two sub-forum (like this one of recently the general polls), religion is a minor issue... And even then, set aside the recent (last two or three months) flurry of such threads, I would say it's a fairly very very very minor subject on PA in general  - if you'll except the long running threads in the GD forum. If religious people would not bring up the subject, my guess is that this would rarely be a topic of choice for many (if not any) of us....  But some (often the same dudes/members) keep bringing it up  ... So it's no surprise that some of these opened threads become target for ridicule or frustrations or even irritation... Should zealots not bring it up, they wouldn't feel "less welcomed". It is the very  persistence of that topic's constant bringing to attention that gets (maybe) its unwelcomed attention  A few solutions: 1. you either don't bring the subject up by opening the umpteenth thread about it (and everything is cool and calm)  or 2. bring those stupid (IMHO) short subjects/questions confined to the long-standing thread in the GD subforum (and everything is cool and calm)  3. you avoid claiming that it's your right to open up as many threads on the subject and then claim to be a victim because you get un-serious responses. 4. in many forums, politics and religion subjects are often banned, because those two subjects always bring big fights between members who take quick offence at the other's views, because it conflicts with your own views... That's because religion doesn't like contradictions and other different opinions (whereas politics is about contradictions and different PoV) Generally when religion arises in a subject (generally in a thread title), then I will check it out (and often, but not always, answer), but I certainly won't go out of my way to bring the religion or esoteric dimension in any other musical or non-musical topics.
Edited by Sean Trane - November 27 2015 at 09:46
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micky
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Joined: October 02 2005
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Points: 46838
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Posted: November 27 2015 at 09:14 |
there is a substantial anti-faith quotient here... and yeah.. you get those like the OP that blatantly imply that faith is for the weak minded. Not that it is hostility but still.. always nice to think that others here might see you as some kind of deluded fool for having personal beliefs. Personally I keep my faith to myself and wish others would keep their lack of it, or disdain for it, to themselves.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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DDPascalDD
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 06 2015
Location: The Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 856
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Posted: November 27 2015 at 09:09 |
Not really hostility per se, and maybe less welcome is a big word, it's in little things. Topics like songs for theists not taken seriously, that sort of things.
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emigre80
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 25 2015
Location: kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 2223
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Posted: November 27 2015 at 08:56 |
DDPascalDD wrote:
emigre80 wrote:
DDPascalDD wrote:
A lot of attention to religion here lately! I'm raised as a christian and always stayed. It's a pity to see so few religious people here. |
Why do you think it's a pity? do you think the site would be improved if more people were religious? It's not a hostile question, I'm just curious as to why you think having more religious people on PA would change anything. |
Don't conclude too fast there mate! ;p In general there are fewer and fewer christians and you can probably imagine one rather has the same thoughts/beliefs with some people than being the only one. Also I am definitely not intending that christians are per se better people which would make the world better than non-christians.
So I think it's a pity that most people on PA think different. (on a forum that's kind of what you're looking for, right?) And well it wouldn't change this place enormously but maybe you'd feel a bit more welcome here as a christian. (By no means any blame to anyone)
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I didn't know Christians felt less welcome here. I don't believe in god myself but I have no objection to anyone else believing in him/her. Have you encountered any hostility?
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presdoug
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 24 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 8779
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Posted: November 27 2015 at 08:44 |
No, I have never believed in God. I have always been an agnostic. But I am very tolerant of other people's religious beliefs-some of my best friends are devout Christians. I tend to not like to argue about religion; my late father was an atheist, and when he was on his deathbed, my stepmother grinned and said to me, "Well, you know, your father isn't going to heaven, he is an atheist." What a thing to say at such a time! I would never try to belittle a person's faith, even if I don't have a personal faith in god. Nor would I condemn an atheist or agnostic for his or her lack of such. And I would never try to push or impose my beliefs on others; to differ is human, after all.
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micky
Special Collaborator
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Joined: October 02 2005
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Points: 46838
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Posted: November 27 2015 at 07:05 |
damn right darling... well said.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Raff
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Joined: July 29 2005
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Points: 24429
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Posted: November 27 2015 at 07:01 |
Though I grew up as a Catholic (in Rome, as many of you know), I lost my faith quite early, in my mid-teens. Due to various circumstances, it took me quite a long time to recognize it, but by the time I had turned 22 or so, I stopped attending church and calling myself religious. Now I consider myself agnostic, though leaning more and more towards atheism.
However, I don't feel the need to belittle anyone who has faith, or loudly state that religion is the root is all evil. I have a lot of respect for personal faith (as opposed to organized religion rammed down people's throats, and/or encroaching on public life), and if that means it's a crutch, so be it. After all, people use all sorts of crutches to go through life, and I don't see how faith is any worse than alcohol, drugs, gambling and their ilk. As to the world being a better place if religion was abolished, I think it's as much of an illusion as believing the world would be better if women were in charge (and I say that as a woman). Personally, I find the worship of money, power and "success" worse than the worship of an "imaginary" being, but that's just me.
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micky
Special Collaborator
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Joined: October 02 2005
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Points: 46838
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Posted: November 27 2015 at 06:20 |
condor wrote:
And I mean a belief that is genuine, not one out of personal desperation but reasoned thought..? |
not sure why... but that rubs me the wrong way. Sounds like you are another member of the mom and dads basement brigade Get out and live. Have your savings wiped out by medical emergencies, lose a child, experience what life really is about. Personal desperation and how you as a person deal with it. There is no better salve for the soul when life has stuck a 2x4 up your ass than faith. It keeps one going and helps provide comfort through the worst of times. It isn't a sign of mental midgity or weakness. I do damn sure believe in God, with everything I've seen and experienced. How could I not
Edited by micky - November 27 2015 at 06:20
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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DDPascalDD
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 06 2015
Location: The Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 856
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Posted: November 27 2015 at 06:00 |
emigre80 wrote:
DDPascalDD wrote:
A lot of attention to religion here lately! I'm raised as a christian and always stayed. It's a pity to see so few religious people here. |
Why do you think it's a pity? do you think the site would be improved if more people were religious? It's not a hostile question, I'm just curious as to why you think having more religious people on PA would change anything. | Don't conclude too fast there mate! ;p In general there are fewer and fewer christians and you can probably imagine one rather has the same thoughts/beliefs with some people than being the only one. Also I am definitely not intending that christians are per se better people which would make the world better than non-christians. So I think it's a pity that most people on PA think different. (on a forum that's kind of what you're looking for, right?) And well it wouldn't change this place enormously but maybe you'd feel a bit more welcome here as a christian. (By no means any blame to anyone)
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VOTOMS
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 18 2013
Location: KOBAIA
Status: Offline
Points: 1420
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Posted: November 27 2015 at 04:46 |
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someone_else
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: May 02 2008
Location: Going Bananas
Status: Offline
Points: 24659
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Posted: November 27 2015 at 03:33 |
I was raised in absolute freedom to choose my own faith and I am a Christian since my twenties. But I am not religious, and as far as I am, I hope to be delivered from that one day.
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20436
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Posted: November 27 2015 at 03:25 |
I was fed the usual religious BS by my grand parents (my father being atheist, my mother mostly agnostic) and by my catholic primary school (though I remember it being fairly modern education for the times), but by the time I was six or seven or eight (after the "first communion" >> done mostly to receive gifts), I decided it was stupid... I refused to do the second communion/confirmation. Soooo, nope, never really believed once I started thinking for myself
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emigre80
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 25 2015
Location: kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 2223
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Posted: November 27 2015 at 00:30 |
DDPascalDD wrote:
A lot of attention to religion here lately! I'm raised as a christian and always stayed. It's a pity to see so few religious people here. |
Why do you think it's a pity? do you think the site would be improved if more people were religious? It's not a hostile question, I'm just curious as to why you think having more religious people on PA would change anything.
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
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Posted: November 27 2015 at 00:26 |
I did believe in God when I was a child. My mother was a Catholic and I was christened, but I didn't have a strict religious upbringing. My mother gently encouraged belief. My father (not Catholic) never spoke of it at all. I stopped believing at around age 7, but I can't remember what triggered that. I've been atheist since. I don't really have any time for religion and fail to see its point, but I'm not a "militant atheist" seeking to actually shut it down. I just think it should be ignored, or humoured like some mad aging relative..
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Polymorphia
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 06 2012
Location: here
Status: Offline
Points: 8856
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Posted: November 26 2015 at 21:03 |
Yeah, still do. The Christian one specifically.
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Ozark Soundscape
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 20 2014
Location: not here
Status: Offline
Points: 2360
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Posted: November 26 2015 at 20:47 |
I believed in Christianity until I was about eleven but I didn't really have a proper understanding of what it meant.
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addictedtoprog
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 16 2014
Location: india
Status: Offline
Points: 1422
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Posted: November 26 2015 at 20:45 |
CosmicVibration wrote:
condor wrote:
A god, that is, that answers prayers: a personal god And I mean a belief that is genuine, not one out of personal desperation but reasoned thought..? |
<!--if gte mso 9> <o:OfficeSettings> <o:AllowPNG/> </o:OfficeSettings> <!-->
<p ="Msonormal">God is both personal and impersonal, manifest and unmanifest.
<p ="Msonormal">Reasoned thought is good but its only theory.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Theory alone will not get you there, you need practice.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Practice what?<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Practice to still the mind and go beyond thought.
<p ="Msonormal">I think therefore I am, says the little ego.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>You are neither the ego nor your thoughts.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>You are the observer.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>You are Love and Joy; God is Love and Joy.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>The entrance is stillness of mind. Be still and know that I am God.
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Nogbad_The_Bad
Forum & Site Admin Group
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl & Eclectic Team
Joined: March 16 2007
Location: Boston
Status: Offline
Points: 21347
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Posted: November 26 2015 at 20:24 |
For a couple of weeks once
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Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com
https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/
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