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cobb 
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Joined: July 10 2005
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 Posted: August 19 2005 at 07:01 |
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This is pretty heavy stuff here Barbs....
Why do I prefer devin townsend to the flower kings?
Why do I think yes is more akin to beethoven than the beatles?
Why do I prefer bands with vocalists compared to bands with no
vocalist, when I love the instrumental sections in the vocal
compositions?
and then of course there's-
Why do i love bananna flavour in dairy products but detest banannas?
These are all questions that I do not need to know the why of- I just know
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barbs
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 04 2005
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Posted: August 19 2005 at 06:42 |
 tangerine62 wrote:
Christ almighty, now we have psycologists in
here..................for f**ks sake you like music because you do.
There is nothin scientific nor psychological in it. Your psyche does
not discern whether you like prog rock, heavy metal, electronic, folk
or whatever. Music is a personal choice, as are many other of
life's other little quirks. I, myself, have 2 options on music i
either like it or hate it there is no middle ground,some of the
supossed prog groups on her make my blood boil. But, there is no point
arguing as someone will always try to reason why they are here (
generally American). Music is appreciated by many for different
types of music bu tnot because they of their psyche. |
You are right. Music is a personal choice, but the topic requires
contemplating why you have made some of those choices and perhaps your
personality is such that you dislike contemplation. Our
response/reactions, even to this post reveals at least a little about
certain aspects of our personality. Positive self reflection is one of
the more civilised aspects of human behaviour IMO.
IMO, if people are open minded they will also consider an holistic
effect on their musical taste which includes the subject of this topic.
Human beings are complex and it stands to reason that musical taste can
be complex. Just because I love or hate a certain type of music does
not mean it is the best or even that it is 'good' music. It doesn't
even mean that it is necessarily prog, even if the other 80 or 90
percent of the music I listen to is 'considered' prog by 'experts'. IMO
there are nature/nurture considerations regarding musical choice among
others.
If you were to just take, for example, the fact that you have very
strong opinions about certain subjects.(Your posting suggests that you
are a person of strong personal opinions and you are not afraid to show
how you 'feel' about it.) Can you measure, with any degree of accuracy,
'all' of the reasons why you 'feel' (I hope you don't deny that humans
have feelings) the way you do about certain things. If, for example,
you have experienced trauma of a substantial nature, the impact of the
trauma is likely to include many of the sights, sounds, smells etc
during that experience. It could be an injury and accident a
relationship issue etc. Basically everyone has experienced some kind of
trauma because birth itself is one.
Of course, if it is a repeat incident it will more likely reinforce the
various sensory connections associated with the incident lodged in your
'filing cabinet' and may be triggered in a whole list of ways when a
particular sight, sound, smell, activity etc takes place. You may feel
apprehensive, anxious, happy, morose, 'indifferent' etc. Now you may be
able to reason this out as some people are about irrational fears etc,
because of their heightened self awareness and because they have
developed coping strategies, but with music we would tend not to reason
like that. Music is generally non-threatening (well most  - could be another topic  )
so we generally don't consider the reasons why/why not, regarding our
dislike of music, somewhat like the response you gave in your post.
There is no reason why our musical appreciation would not in some
way be affected by some of the things I suggested and therefore, to a
degree our concept of 'choice' can be subconsciously compromised.
Now if we take that and then add the fact that as human beings we are all
different and IMO unique, all subject to influences all of our lives
and that these differences include personality which will, to a degree,
dictate likes and dislikes including food, music, reading material etc
- even friendships/relationships, then I believe the discussions in
this thread are valid as well as being civilised and considerate.
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Eternity
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porter
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 07 2005
Location: Italy
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Points: 362
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Posted: August 19 2005 at 06:31 |
barbs wrote:
porter wrote:
I just CAN'T STAND PF. I've tried so many times to like them, I swear I did, but, nothing...it never happened! And I do consider them as a great band, one of the greatest ever...it's just that they don't "get" me...it's a pretty irrational thing I guess, I wouldn't be able to tell you why; it just happens. Same thing for Genesis(even though in that case I think I know why I don't like them....but let's keep that a secret  .) It seems to me that a portion of my brain firmly refuses to listen to certain bands or to do things like reading novels or going to church, while another portion of it just KNOWS that they would all be good things to do. I mean, I've listened to Foxtrot and to DSOTM so many times trying to like them, and they opened my mind in some respects, but I still don't like them. While on one hand I think "wow! what a great guitar player Dave Gilmour is!!", on the other I feel an urge to kill him (even though I'd prefer to kill Roger Waters)
What can I do? I must be a desperate case.
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Port, what bands are your favs? I was wondering if you would find, that in comparing your fav music with PF and Genesis, that you might identify a contrast that reveals what it is specifically that 'gets at you' about their music. By deconstructing their use of instruments and compostitional arrangements, vocals, use of extraneous sound, atmosphere etc and comparing to the others - it might be possible to identify something in particular that puts you off them. In the case of VGG, I really had to look past the vocals to really appreciate the complexity of their music, but I often find it difficult to handle 'different' vocal styles that don't match the criteria I have in my head/soul for what I personally consider to be 'listenable' vocals. (Geddy Lee and Surkamp are other examples)
Fortunately, I can overcome my prejudice about this now, which broadens the musical spectrum I listen to. I still prefer a certain type of vocalist though. (Still, I'm not sure if this has anything to do with my personality.)
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Well, I must admit that, beyond the irrational thing i mentioned about my "hate" for PF and my "not exactly love" for Genesis, I have a love for a hard-edged sound, which is something that I don't find in the 2 bands above, especially in Genesis, and I also feel a "lack of something" in both of them: for Genesis it may be some kind of "inconsistency" in their musicianship (they are good musicians indeed, but nothing compared to others, at least in terms of "groove"....now what do I call groove? that's a question....); for PF it deals with the composition. It seems to me that their best songs just came out by accident (PERSONAL OPINION, don't stone me for this), whereas most of their songs sound pretty much the same (DSOTM is a clear example of my theory, apart from RADICALLY different ones like The great gig in the sky). There are three bands in prog that I particularly love: KC, VDGG, and Yes. I LOVE Peter Hammill's vocals, because I love craziness in general, I love KC's stuff, especially the hard one (TCOL being one of my fave albums) even though I find them a little too dark sometimes, and I'm starting to adore Yes...I think they are a prog version of The Beatles, musicianship added of course, and that's a big thing!!(for me ).
About the prejudice thing, you're totally right, probably the only reason why I can't fall in love with Genesis (and I was about to a couple of times) is the fact that I can't overcome the prejudice...I could with Geddy Lee's voice, I could with Peter Hammill's weirdness (even though it took me a very little time to appreciate him) but I couldn't with, say, Tony Banks' style...just sounds "wrong" to me...
for PF it's different because my mind has decided not to give them any chance
anyway, the subject is very complicated, it'd take forever to unravel all of the subtle aspects it implies, and I don't think you'd want me to infest the forum THAT long...
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"my kingdom for a horse!" (W. Shakespeare, "Richard III")
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BaldFriede
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10266
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Posted: August 19 2005 at 03:50 |
barbs wrote:
porter wrote:
I just CAN'T STAND PF. I've tried so many times to like them, I
swear I did, but, nothing...it never happened! And I do consider them
as a great band, one of the greatest ever...it's just that they don't
"get" me...it's a pretty irrational thing I guess, I wouldn't be able
to tell you why; it just happens. Same thing for Genesis(even though in
that case I think I know why I don't like them....but let's keep that a
secret .) It seems to me that a portion
of my brain firmly refuses to listen to certain bands or to do things
like reading novels or going to church, while another portion of it
just KNOWS that they would all be good things to do. I mean, I've
listened to Foxtrot and to DSOTM so many times trying to like them, and
they opened my mind in some respects, but I still don't like them.
While on one hand I think "wow! what a great guitar player Dave Gilmour
is!!", on the other I feel an urge to kill him (even though I'd prefer
to kill Roger Waters)
What can I do? I must be a desperate case.
|
Port, what bands are your favs? I was wondering if you would find,
that in comparing your fav music with PF and Genesis, that you might
identify a contrast that reveals what it is specifically that 'gets at
you' about their music. By deconstructing their use of instruments and
compostitional arrangements, vocals, use of extraneous sound,
atmosphere etc and comparing to the others - it might be possible
to identify something in particular that puts you off them. In the case
of VGG, I really had to look past the vocals to really appreciate the
complexity of their music, but I often find it difficult to handle
'different' vocal styles that don't match the criteria I have in my
head/soul for what I personally consider to be 'listenable'
vocals. (Geddy Lee and Surkamp are other examples)
Fortunately, I can overcome my prejudice about this now, which
broadens the musical spectrum I listen to. I still prefer a certain
type of vocalist though. (Still, I'm not sure if this has anything to
do with my personality.) |
Peter Hammill is a case of "love him or hate him", and I must admit it
took me a while too before I got used to his vocal style (my first
VdGG-experience was "Godbluff"). But now I absolutely love that voice
and think it is by far the best in prog. No-one brings emotions across
like Peter Hammill (the man can sing absolutely beautifully, by the
way, only it would not fit for most of the lyrics, especially not with
VdGG. But some of the love songs on his solo albums are beautifully
sung; just listen to "This Side of the Looking Glass" from his solo
album "Over". And anyone who ever experienced an unaccompanied encore
in one of his concerts (without microphone or instruments) can only say
"Wow!" I had that experience twice; once he sang "Again", the other
time "I Smile Like Chicago" from Robert Fripp's first solo album
"Exposure" (where Hammill has a few guest appearances).
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 BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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el böthy
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 27 2005
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 6336
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Posted: August 18 2005 at 23:07 |
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well yes, I certainly think that there is some link between music and ones character...specially when you are a fan. the best example I think are the punks! but with me it also goes...I think its because I was always...not a weirdo, but diferent as others, specially as a little boy. I never liked sports and I spend all my time drawing ( actually I am an artist if you want to look it that way). Then I begun to pley the guitar, which Im quiet good ad I must say jejejeje. Then along came prog and that was an other important step in my life ( I really feel that prog has changed me) and finally I found out how much I love films and movies, specially the "weird" movies, like the ones from David Lynch and Tim Burton, The Wall, Want to be John Malkovich...etc...so Im going to study cinematography...so in a way all of this things really clicked, in the way that I always like the thing that most people dont.
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"You want me to play what, Robert?"
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Posted: August 18 2005 at 20:40 |
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Christ almighty, now we have psycologists in here..................for f**ks sake you like music because you do. There is nothin scientific nor psychological in it. Your psyche does not discern whether you like prog rock, heavy metal, electronic, folk or whatever. Music is a personal choice, as are many other of life's other little quirks. I, myself, have 2 options on music i either like it or hate it there is no middle ground,some of the supossed prog groups on her make my blood boil. But, there is no point arguing as someone will always try to reason why they are here ( generally American). Music is appreciated by many for different types of music bu tnot because they of their psyche.
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barbs
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 04 2005
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 562
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Posted: August 18 2005 at 20:03 |
porter wrote:
I just CAN'T STAND PF. I've tried so many times to like them, I swear I did, but, nothing...it never happened! And I do consider them as a great band, one of the greatest ever...it's just that they don't "get" me...it's a pretty irrational thing I guess, I wouldn't be able to tell you why; it just happens. Same thing for Genesis(even though in that case I think I know why I don't like them....but let's keep that a secret .) It seems to me that a portion of my brain firmly refuses to listen to certain bands or to do things like reading novels or going to church, while another portion of it just KNOWS that they would all be good things to do. I mean, I've listened to Foxtrot and to DSOTM so many times trying to like them, and they opened my mind in some respects, but I still don't like them. While on one hand I think "wow! what a great guitar player Dave Gilmour is!!", on the other I feel an urge to kill him (even though I'd prefer to kill Roger Waters)
What can I do? I must be a desperate case.
|
Port, what bands are your favs? I was wondering if you would find, that in comparing your fav music with PF and Genesis, that you might identify a contrast that reveals what it is specifically that 'gets at you' about their music. By deconstructing their use of instruments and compostitional arrangements, vocals, use of extraneous sound, atmosphere etc and comparing to the others - it might be possible to identify something in particular that puts you off them. In the case of VGG, I really had to look past the vocals to really appreciate the complexity of their music, but I often find it difficult to handle 'different' vocal styles that don't match the criteria I have in my head/soul for what I personally consider to be 'listenable' vocals. (Geddy Lee and Surkamp are other examples)
Fortunately, I can overcome my prejudice about this now, which broadens the musical spectrum I listen to. I still prefer a certain type of vocalist though. (Still, I'm not sure if this has anything to do with my personality.)
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Eternity
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Soulman
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 22 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 290
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Posted: August 18 2005 at 18:42 |
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I think it would be a little pretentious for one to say that they are
open-minded; as of course, some of us may despise certain bands or
types of music. And that is usually because we tend appreciate things
that we can relate to, so much that it tends to make his ignorant.
I don't think we should get the wrong idea, that prog fans are the
better fans of music. It's just that as prog fans we tend to appreciate
certain things about music, different from other fans of musical
genres.
I think as an individual, I liked prog rock music, because I like it's
ability to be many things as often I find my tastes to be conflicted; I
cannot stick to one type of sound. Prog can take upon many musical
genres, it can be completely abstract, melodic, virtuosistic, and
emotional. Those are some things that I definetely admire about prog
rock.
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King of Loss
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 16813
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Posted: August 18 2005 at 14:01 |
WEll, the bands you choose sometimes determines your personality. But I know a kid with almost the identical tastes in music as me and his personality is not even close to mine!
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NetsNJFan
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 12 2005
Location: United States
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Points: 3047
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Posted: August 18 2005 at 13:56 |
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I admit I'm a little closeminded. Its bad but I really dislike experimentation for the heck of it (in music). There are some genres I just cannot get into and probably never will, but I admit I had pre-conceived notions about them (....Kraut, Zeuhl, Metal)
In goign with your topic barbs I fidn that I cannot listen to any German Music with vocals. Any other country I can stand, and even some German music is alright, but once the vocals come in i get freaked out and turn it off, especially if its non english.
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porter
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 07 2005
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 362
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Posted: August 18 2005 at 11:44 |
this topic is great!
I think that you are perfectly right in your analysis of the nature of musical tastes...I consider myself a really open minded person, not only for music, also for life in general...but, there are some things that I just CAN'T GET INTO, despite my personality. For example, since you've mentioned them in your thread, I just CAN'T STAND PF. I've tried so many times to like them, I swear I did, but, nothing...it never happened! And I do consider them as a great band, one of the greatest ever...it's just that they don't "get" me...it's a pretty irrational thing I guess, I wouldn't be able to tell you why; it just happens. Same thing for Genesis(even though in that case I think I know why I don't like them....but let's keep that a secret .) It seems to me that a portion of my brain firmly refuses to listen to certain bands or to do things like reading novels or going to church, while another portion of it just KNOWS that they would all be good things to do. I mean, I've listened to Foxtrot and to DSOTM so many times trying to like them, and they opened my mind in some respects, but I still don't like them. While on one hand I think "wow! what a great guitar player Dave Gilmour is!!", on the other I feel an urge to kill him (even though I'd prefer to kill Roger Waters)
What can I do? I must be a desperate case.
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"my kingdom for a horse!" (W. Shakespeare, "Richard III")
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Infinity
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 24 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 333
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Posted: August 18 2005 at 10:58 |
Pre-judgements certainly play their part as does association....the point is conquering those if you have have the desire to.
The rest has to lie on what is pleasing to the ear, emotions whatever.....I do believe this can evlove.
A listener can be so conditional with music but then something may come along to spin your personal take on it, perhaps even your comfort zone completely on it's head....to be embraced and acknowledged or swept under the carpet......the truth will out though
cool topic by the way
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I can't remember what I said
I lost my head.
__________________________
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spectral
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 04 2005
Location: Vatican City State
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Posted: August 18 2005 at 09:13 |
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^ "...as Girlfriend A. once said, your honour!"
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"...misty halos made visible by the spectral illumination of moonshine."
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barbs
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 04 2005
Location: Australia
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Points: 562
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Posted: August 18 2005 at 08:40 |
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Eternity
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barbs
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 04 2005
Location: Australia
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Points: 562
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Posted: August 18 2005 at 08:31 |
BaldFriede wrote:
I don't think I am being eccentric just for the heck of it. I have been
quite an outsider all my life; admired in a way (I was a child prodigy
and especially a math wizard, which is a little unusual for girls; I
don't remember how many math exams I wrote for others back in school),
but no-one ever really warmed up to me. I hung around with some circles
but never had the feeling I really belonged. The only person I really
belong to is my wonderful wife Jean.
This is not supposed to sound sad though. I am quite happy.
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Unfortunately, schools have a habit of doing that to people Friede. If
a child is either, especially gifted or particularly challenged, their
peers often keep them out for a whole complex list of reasons but
really because children have not been taught to be inclusive of others
on a broad enough scale (and some of course have even been taught to be
exclusive).
Particularly as a girl/young woman, you possibly intimidated the guys
because of your intellect and school groups develop strange dynamics by
which they relate - at some stage a person has to develop strong
defense mechanisms to cope (psyche) and by that stage the die is often
cast.
I would not call myself eccentric but I have often felt that
eccentricity is an extremely strong desire for independent choice and
identification with extreme ideals in the pursuit of creative outlets.
It appears to be a form of security in identifying oneself as unique in
a world that so often is marked by trend and the drone of the madding
crowd. Eccentrics seem to be quite happy with their own company  most of the time, but...
perhaps its really just a reaction to JWs constantly knocking at the door.
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Eternity
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spectral
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 04 2005
Location: Vatican City State
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Posted: August 18 2005 at 07:38 |
I was just interested and I certainly wasn't intimating you were making this all up!! You're definitely a weirdo
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"...misty halos made visible by the spectral illumination of moonshine."
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BaldFriede
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
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Points: 10266
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Posted: August 18 2005 at 07:34 |
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I don't think I am being eccentric just for the heck of it. I have been
quite an outsider all my life; admired in a way (I was a child prodigy
and especially a math wizard, which is a little unusual for girls; I
don't remember how many math exams I wrote for others back in school),
but no-one ever really warmed up to me. I hung around with some circles
but never had the feeling I really belonged. The only person I really
belong to is my wonderful wife Jean.
This is not supposed to sound sad though. I am quite happy.
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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spectral
Forum Senior Member
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Posted: August 18 2005 at 07:18 |
Is being an "eccentric" your nature or something you've made efforts to become? Not that I'm saying this of you, but some people like the idea of being an eccentric and force themselves to revel in eccentricities - i.e. watching particular films, reading certain books etc.. Is it a character trait or is it experiences when you are young that shapes/brings out your eccentric personality?
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"...misty halos made visible by the spectral illumination of moonshine."
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cobb
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Location: Australia
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Posted: August 18 2005 at 07:09 |
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Surrealism is just fantasy in a different guise.
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BaldFriede
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Location: Germany
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Posted: August 18 2005 at 07:02 |
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With movies it is the same as with music with me. Some of my favourite
movies: "The Holy Mountain" and "El Topo" by Alejandro Jodorowsky,
"Zardoz" (starring Sean Connery) by John Boorman and "Viva la Muerte!"
by Spanish surrealist Fernando Arrabal.
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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Personality types and prog
