The Ranting Room

Blacksword wrote: James, I've no idea who to vote for either, for pretty much the same reasons you give.

I know what you both mean & agree fully; I'm not a political person by any means (too damned thick to understand the minutiae of differences between two identical political parties I guess), but it does leave one in a quandry...

You don't want to abstain from voting for the age old reason (valid or not) that you're rejecting your democratic right to vote & abstension negates any right you have to complain about the results.

Do you vote for the opposition no matter how bad they may seem to get the incumbent government out - effectively voting somebody out rather than voting somebody in (negative voting)?

Do you vote for the incumbent party, to stop an inexperienced opposition with very few concrete policies getting in (the 'anybody but them' vote)

Do you vote for a party who have the most policies you actually do agree with, but have no hope in winning even one seat (thus retaining your integrity but arguably wasting your vote)?

Without FPTP, however, you can't actually get rid of your MP specifically. Also, the liberals could realistically get into coalition with basically every government, and hold some substantial form of power even when they wouldn't get more than 20% of the vote (being optimistic).

I agree that FPTP is heavily flawed, but I don't like the alternatives any more than it, really. Have to admit, I'm not really able to talk about the wasted vote in any more than theory, though. Constituency with a 200 Labour majority (and a good MP), and I'm not voting yet.


Edited by TGM: Orb - May 31 2008 at 20:52

^

The choice issue is a fair rant, I admit.

James, I've no idea who to vote for either, for pretty much the same reasons you give. I warmed to Nick Clegg slightly after he had the guts to admit he was an Athiest. I dont have a problem with a leader who has a religous faith, of course, it's just refreshing to hear a politican saying this, without fear of alienting the Christian or Muslim vote, or that of any other religion.

That said, I wont vote Lib Dem. Their policies, as you say, seem thin on the ground, and like the Tories, they seem to just react to what the government is doing, rather than coming up with their own radical ideas for change. I dont consider myself a liberal, anyway. I consider myself a pragmatist. Sometmes I think governments should just do what needs to be done for the greater good, and not fret about upsetting people.

The Greens dont even warrent comment, IMO.

There is far less choice now, as you say no SDP, Communist party etc, and whilst I'm certain communism is not the answer, it's equally terrible that there is nothing between the main parties. I think this was always how it was going to go. Some say this is a good thing, becase if two opposing parties have polices that are too far removed from each other, when one party replaces the other in government, it is too costly and complicated to implement the new radically different agenda. There is logic to that, I guess, but I think its tragic that we have only ever moved closer to looking after big business at the expense of the 'little man'

I think there has been a move to homogenise politcal thinking across all parties in recent years, and this has contributed in part to the profound voter apathy we see in this country, and, I believe in the US, where there has always, if we are honest, been little between the Republicans and the Democrats.

fandango wrote: NaturalScience wrote: I know I shouldn't laugh at that tale, Jared, but I can't help it.  And breaking into prison!    Not a good comment on the opportunities available for those guys...   Patrick, the stark situation in the UK is that on the one hand, an unskilled person just cannot earn enough to live on without being topped up by State benefits...so what's the point?   on the other hand, imprisonment means they don't have to work, get 3 meals a day, use of a gymnasium and sports facilities, TVs, DVDs etc, free counselling, and ready availability of illegal substances....   ...the choice isn't quite so black and white as we'd like it to be...

Not too dissimilar from here, I suppose...I can't imagine how working class people are expected to make it, with everything so damn expensive.

NaturalScience wrote: I know I shouldn't laugh at that tale, Jared, but I can't help it.  And breaking into prison!    Not a good comment on the opportunities available for those guys...

fandango wrote: Blacksword wrote: BTW, did I mention that I passed my driving test at long last. I shall do my best not allow my my angst to turn into horrible road rage!     about bloody time 'n all....

Tell me about it! I knew there was something I meant to do 20 years ago, it's been bugging me ever since..

fandango wrote: Blacksword wrote:  Amazingly, we are currently considering locking up crims on moored boats, once again. Our prisons are full apparently.    oh yes...and furthermore, they are very popular with our discerning underclass.... did you hear the story of how Wakefield prison was broken into recently, to smuggle in drugs?  apparently, there was plenty of time for the inmates to escape, but none of them wanted to, as they thought they had a better life inside...   strangely enough, in my previous incarnation, I was giving unemployment help to an ex con, who had been sent to me over the course of several weeks by Employment Services...he then stopped coming in, and I found out that all his best mates were inside Wakefield prison, where he had already done 2/3 stretches..and he was bored, so he went and smashed a shop window and stole the contents, just so he'd get put back in again....

I cant imagine how having your liberty taken away can be better than being free under any circumstances. It's a terrible situation. I dont want to be one of these people who say prisons are like B&B's, but being in prison should be extremly unpleasant, in order to have some deterrent effect.

Blacksword wrote: BTW, did I mention that I passed my driving test at long last. I shall do my best not allow my my angst to turn into horrible road rage!

Blacksword wrote:  Amazingly, we are currently considering locking up crims on moored boats, once again. Our prisons are full apparently.