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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
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Posted: June 24 2008 at 12:37 |
In the U.S. the big annoyance is "McMansions", of which there are oodles of little developments in my area...I drive past and wonder, where the hell is everyone getting this money - I must be in the wrong line of work!
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
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Posted: June 24 2008 at 12:35 |
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Jim Garten
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin & Razor Guru
Joined: February 02 2004
Location: South England
Status: Offline
Points: 14693
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Posted: June 24 2008 at 12:18 |
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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: June 24 2008 at 08:36 |
Jim Garten wrote:
... inbetween re-runs of 'Grand Designs' (and don't even get me started on that)!
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"It's already a week late and 3p over budget I can't see this project ever getting finished at this rate unless he gets his finger out."
"You have to admit it's a bold design but the idea of putting brass hinges on a door is just plain crazy, however he's now a week and half behind schedule and 4p over budget, if he carries on like this I can't see this project ever getting finished."
"We arrived today to hear the disappointing news that there's been another 2½ days delay and he's had to borrow 5p from his father. With little prospect of being able to payback his dad unless some kind if miracle happens, I can't see anyone living here this year...!"
"Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse, the TV production team have cajoled him into hiring a crane and pointlessly filming it in the pouring rain. To add to his misery, I'm now gurning at the camera in a smarmy way and sounding dramatically concerned. The chances of this build completing on time are now non-existent."
"Well, I'm flabbergasted, the job is now finished and I have to say it is remarkable - conversions like this are rare and show great flare and imagination. Who would have thought 10 months ago that this disused chicken coup could be converted into a stylish and practical 5 bedroom house for under 5 million quid. I take my hat off to him."
/edit: sorry, it was my lunchhour and I was bored... and not being a teenager this was all I could think of to do.
Edited by darqDean - June 24 2008 at 08:40
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Jim Garten
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin & Razor Guru
Joined: February 02 2004
Location: South England
Status: Offline
Points: 14693
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Posted: June 24 2008 at 08:26 |
Bailiff:
"You are the biggest peasant - Goodbye"
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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
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Posted: June 24 2008 at 08:07 |
^^ I think you could really be on to something there, Jim!
I can just imagine Ann Robinson.. "Who's a few quid short of the minimum wage? Who thinks they have a God given right to a roof over their heads in 21st Century Britain? It's time to stitch up...the biggest peasant"
Edited by Blacksword - June 24 2008 at 08:07
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Jim Garten
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin & Razor Guru
Joined: February 02 2004
Location: South England
Status: Offline
Points: 14693
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Posted: June 24 2008 at 07:36 |
Blacksword wrote:
Lets see a program about a real young couple, without a pot to p1ss in, struggling to get together the smallest of deposits, to part buy/part rent some housing asscociation cupboard |
Andy - such a programme highlighting issues faced by real people would not get the ratings required by the robber baron TV networks...
...unless it were entitled something like "Police Camera Scum Property Ladder" with grainy footage (taken from a helicopter with plenty of snap-cuts) of a young couple going into an estate agent, there to be met by Noel Edmonds with a row of boxes, one of which contains the key to a 1 bedroomed flat on a sink estate (which is all they can afford) & the other 15 boxes contains viral anthrax (which to be honest is preferable), they then get chased by a police car to the estate they can afford (with plenty of cutaway shots to an estate agent giving platitudes like "I did recommend a possible shared ownership scheme whereby they only pay £600 per month mortgage to own 1% of a new-build house made of cardboard & cheese + £750 a month rental on the remainder - this way they get 2 different chances for eviction, as they only earn £20,000 pa between them, but they wouldn't listen") where they're met by Chris Tarrant & Ann Robinson to take part in a gameshow format style property auction where they may get the house, but will definitely lose any shreds of dignity remaining after they'd already spent the last 12 months being told "you don't earn enough" by every mortgage lender in the high street & can only afford the 1 bedroomed sink estate flat as Dodgy Barry gave them a sub-sub-sub-sub prime mortage at an APR of 67% secured on their property, their parents' property, their dog and great uncle albert's remaining kidney...
Still - they may get an additional income from the 20p repeat fee every time it's shown on every single bloody sattelite channel every afternoon, evening & weekend, inbetween re-runs of 'Grand Designs' (and don't even get me started on that)!
Sorry, what was the question again...?
Edited by Jim Garten - June 24 2008 at 07:38
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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: June 24 2008 at 07:23 |
Wow - you've got sparrows! I haven't seen a sparrow in my garden for years - got just about every other native bird you care to name but sparras are a distinct rarity - something to do with the increased hawk population.
Ironically...
When I lived in the centre of town I use to do all my recording in the attic, and apart from stopping for the nearby church bell chiming every quarter, I didn't need too much in the way of sound-proofing (which would have made the room unbearably hot in summer). Now I live in the sticks I'm astounded by how noisy it really is out here - recording vocals or any acoustic instrument is a no-no. I'll happily admit that some of these extraneous countryside noises are quite Prog, some of them do manage to invoke the feeling of a bucolic idyll: the dawn chorus, the cows, tractors and the passing steam locomotives but I'm not too sure whether to the Chinook helicopters and neighbours' petrol lawn-mowers do though.
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Jared
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 06 2005
Location: Hereford, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 19897
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Posted: June 24 2008 at 07:03 |
^^at my Youth Hostel, I have between 25-30 nesting pairs of House Sparrows, both in boxes around the building, and in the holly hedge around the edge of the car park...
already this season, I've had 2 complaints from customers, saying they had been woken up at 5am (ish) by the dawn chorus. both were from London, where they've murdered most of their sparrows...
..one customer (in all seriousness) suggested that I give customers advance warning that if they take a bedroom at the front of the hostel, they are likely to have their sleep disturbed...
...I know you all think I'm making it up, but I kid you not....
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Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Online
Points: 65473
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Posted: June 24 2008 at 06:03 |
fandango wrote:
and if you open the window and concentrate, you can just about hear the occasional tractor on the B4355... and they wanted complete peace and quiet...
...and we'd have to do something about those bloody House Sparrows....
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yeah it's the house sparrows and distant sounds of farm equipment that makes the countryside nice.. you'd go crazy in complete ongoing silence
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Jared
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 06 2005
Location: Hereford, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 19897
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Posted: June 24 2008 at 05:57 |
Blacksword wrote:
Who are these people and why can't they off back to where they came?. |
I think I'm somehow even more annoyed by the couple in their mid-late 20's who have half a million in their back pockets, and show not an ounce of gratitude or appreciation for their lot in life, than I am by the babyboomers...
well, they certainly didn't get that kind of money through working for the probation service, but as long as 3 year old Amerantha can own her own paddock and enjoy the heated swimming pool, then everything should turn out fine...
Ok...I've said enough...I'm going to off to my local, rural Post Office (while we still have one...)
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Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson
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Jared
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 06 2005
Location: Hereford, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 19897
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Posted: June 24 2008 at 05:51 |
^^^oh, don't get me started....
complacent baby boomers wanting to buy up half of Hampshire as a second home...irritated because the hedge isn't high enough to block out the view of the farmhouse 500 yards away, which they consider to be an invasion of their privacy, and they can't believe that Caroline whats her face has found a mansion with the the conservatory facing East, and if you open the window and concentrate, you can just about hear the occasional tractor on the B4355... and they wanted complete peace and quiet...
...and we'd have to do something about those bloody House Sparrows....
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Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
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Posted: June 24 2008 at 05:19 |
Jim
Those property programs are one of my - many - pet hates. I find them offensive. The scenarios you describe are spot on, and hi-light the true problems in this country; that massive divide between those who have money and those who dont.
Lets see a program about a real young couple, without a pot to p1ss in, struggling to get together the smallest of deposits, to part buy/part rent some housing asscociation cupboard. I'm sick of all those couples turning properties down because they 'dont like the stables' or whatever. Who are these people and why can't they off back to where they came? People dont pay their TV liecense to be reminded of what paupers they are.
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
Status: Offline
Points: 89372
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Posted: June 24 2008 at 04:29 |
I have also noticed a lot of middle-class mothers with many children by different fathers as well. Of course, they are not as young and are mostly multi-divorcees but for all those children to live under one roof with their mother, must be a bit daunting for them.
A girl I went to school with (I'm talking about 1995/6 here) had a child aged 14/15 and missed most of year 11. I believe she returned for her GCSEs but she probably did not find it that easy. Of course, it seems much more prevalent now and it also seems a fair percentage of over 16s have had some form of STI at some point too. Chlamydia can even cause problems with pregnancy later on in life, if is remains untreated.
I really do not know how teenage pregnancy rates will drop. The teenagers in question know the risks. They're not stupid. For teenagers and young adults, sex can be exciting and risky. Youngsters always take risks of some kind. They have have less fear. There is often (but not always) peer pressure at play too. This is a big issue really. Youngsters like to follow others, or be followed. They find it difficult to go it alone and ignore others. If they do not "fit in" they will likely be ridiculed or bullied.
Boredom is another factor and many teenagers seem to have acquired a short attention span as well. This means if they do have a hobby or interest, they will only be able to do it for a short while and then they will be bored. So they will probably hang around with others of their age who are also bored. Those poor areas with less amenities will mean teenagers will find it harder to do things (although if they used their imagination more and did not have short attention spans, they would). Plus with all the fuss about street crime and the like, parents do not want their children to go too far.
My father took bicycle rides when he was young, often going quite a distance to go trainspotting or fishing. You would be hard pushed to find a child cycling that far now. The parents would have a fit!
I know a few well-off families with young adult children and even they complain at being bored. They do not immerse themselves in literature or have many hobbies. They get just as bored as the working class children do. That is not the case with all families though, of course but it does sit uncomfortably with me to think that.
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Jim Garten
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin & Razor Guru
Joined: February 02 2004
Location: South England
Status: Offline
Points: 14693
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Posted: June 24 2008 at 03:44 |
This has been touched upon previously, but Rachel's post highlights a serious problem in rural communities; villages are dying (literally) because any young people brought up in a small village cannot afford to stay, as overpaid city types are buying up everything from cottages to barns in order to have a country retreat - as a result the property prices soar in the area, young people leave the community to find somewhere (relatively) less expensive to buy or rent property, leaving the village to the aging 'older' residents.
I'm of an age that can remember when Welsh villagers started burning the weekend retreats of wealthy English for exactly this reason - are we soon to see mobs of pitchfork wielding wrinklies storming up the drives of immaculate barn conversions (with a break to pop in for a cream tea, naturally) & hurling flaming torches through the windows, only to find that as they're naturally triple glazed (to keep out the appalling noise of church bells, cows & sheep which disturb the sleep of the saintly city bred rich) they bounce right back at them resulting in city bankers (new rhyming slang if ever there was one) waking of a morning to find their driveways littered with the still smouldering remains of Mrs Miggins & the vicar by the mock Georgian front door.
We live in a country rapidly developing a blame-culture, so at whose door do I lay such blame for the immolation of hundreds of elrerly villagers (for it will happen, mark my words )?
These two:
It is down to programmes like Channel Four's "Location Location Location" that city types now believe they have not made it in the corporate dog shag dog world of city brokering/money laundering until Phil Spencer has persuaded them to take a 19th century cottage & fill it to the brim with Harvey Nichols's finest tat at "only £500,000" whilst Kirsty Allsop trawls the villages of the Dordogne to find some toothless crone willing to part with her ancestral home for "only €15,000,000" (plus rebuilding expenses and another €300,000 to bribe local planning officials), all the time training the chinless idiots they're sourcing property for not to see a room, but to see a "good space", not to see a home, but an "investment opportunity" - this at a time when the property market in the UK is poised on the brink of another nose-dive, so whilst Mr & Mrs Joe Average are patently unable to get even the smallest toe on the property ladder without their bankers hitting it with a 25 pound club hammer (or "interest rates" as they're commonly known) the major TV channels continue to churn out these kind of programmes (one of which with a supreme touch of irony is actually called "Property Ladder") just to rub their noses in it - "Hey you filthy poor people, here's an hour's worth of programming designed specifically to show you what you cannot, and will never in your wildest dreams be able to afford" - enjoy!
B s
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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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Wilcey
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2696
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Posted: June 23 2008 at 16:17 |
The country is going to the wall I tell you!
In my village in Norfolk a ONE-up/ONE-down fishermans cottage sold for 245k to some london yuppie for a weekend bolt hole!!!!!
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Jared
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 06 2005
Location: Hereford, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 19897
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Posted: June 23 2008 at 16:03 |
^^ I've overheard two rather interesting conversation recently. Two female friends met in the local co-op; the first one says 'Oh I haven't seen you around much lately'. The second tells her that she had taken a job in Hereford (20 miles) because it was paying £6.50 an hour instead of the £5.50 she was on locally. The recent petrol hike however, has meant that she is worse off, because much of her meagre wage goes on fuel, and she's having to find something local again on £5.50 an hour, to make ends meet.
the second conversation was from a woman in her early 60's, who has her son, daughter in law and their kids living under the same roof. She sounded like she was at the end of her tether..never having any peace and quiet, and family friction through all living in such a cramped space... but she said that she couldn't afford to set them up in a home of their own, and it would be a long time before the son could on his wages... so her and her husband would have to continue to suffer...
just two stories which highlight different aspects of rural poverty, which are all around here...
I feel like William Cobbett, and should get down to writing 'Rural Rides' part 2....
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Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
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Posted: June 23 2008 at 15:04 |
fandango wrote:
Blacksword wrote:
In the UK we'd never do anything so pragmatic and straightforward as that. We favour tip toeing and tap dancing around the issue until it becomes completely unmanageable, at which point we just brush it under the carpet and try and ignore it. British style! |
Patrick, I have to say, your description of what is happening in the US IS draconian, and I can't agree with it...its like ordering a man to get up off the floor, when he has a Soumo wrestler sat on his windpipe...
Jim asks, what is to be done. Well, I'd like to tell you a story about what is happening just down the road from here...it might sound familiar to you, but I think you'll be interested.
Back in 2004, our local petrol station closed down (that ones for another day...don't get me started... )...while the land was being decommissioned, the county council tendered bids for 'affordable' starter homes to be built on the site, as we have NO-WHERE affordable for key workers to live. Now, this site is opposite a small trust hospital/ nursing home/ residential home, which pays about minimum wage, and consequently always has vacancies. The Manager consequently recruits from agencies in the far east, africa and eastern europe for staff, offering to pay for their flight, and giving them free accommodation for the first couple of months. these 'nurses' are then placed, 4 and 5 together into a 3 bedroom house.
the council, keen to create more affordable housing, accepted plans for 11 one and two bed flats on the site, complete with off road parking, in order to accommodate key workers, principally. now, this was not a large petrol station, and when these 'shoe boxes' went on the market, they started at £120,000 for the smallest. Now, I must admit, this is the cheapest property which has come on the market around here, but it is still approx 10 times the annual salary of the average care assistant at the trust hospital. And there is a further catch.. the crafty builders built in a mandatory £1,000 a year service charge for the lift, grounds, guttering etc (even if you live on the ground floor).
why? well, the builders never wanted key workers living there in the first place; they want 11 retired couples (from the South East) to purchase them; that is who they advertised them to, and during the open day, I don't think there was a single person under 60 who viewed...
OK, I'm sorry for the length of the story, but I wanted to highlight the fact that the government CANNOT rely on the private sector to build affordable homes for young, local people.... it is not in their interests to do so...
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I should say that we do have a great scheme in the UK, that our wonderful socialist Labour government has implemented this year. It's a scheme that forces people on incapacity benefit back into work. Now of course there will be a percentage of people on incapacity benefit who can work, but just dont, but generally Brown & co are targetting the wrong people. So, instead of investing in opportunities programs for those who can work, but either cant afford to, or cant find work, they target the weakest. Typical NuLab approach.
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Jared
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 06 2005
Location: Hereford, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 19897
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Posted: June 23 2008 at 14:33 |
...my word, there's some jolly fine ranting going on this evening...have a clappy, everyone...
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Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson
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Jared
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 06 2005
Location: Hereford, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 19897
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Posted: June 23 2008 at 14:30 |
Blacksword wrote:
In the UK we'd never do anything so pragmatic and straightforward as that. We favour tip toeing and tap dancing around the issue until it becomes completely unmanageable, at which point we just brush it under the carpet and try and ignore it. British style! |
Patrick, I have to say, your description of what is happening in the US IS draconian, and I can't agree with it...its like ordering a man to get up off the floor, when he has a Soumo wrestler sat on his windpipe...
Jim asks, what is to be done. Well, I'd like to tell you a story about what is happening just down the road from here...it might sound familiar to you, but I think you'll be interested.
Back in 2004, our local petrol station closed down (that ones for another day...don't get me started... )...while the land was being decommissioned, the county council tendered bids for 'affordable' starter homes to be built on the site, as we have NO-WHERE affordable for key workers to live. Now, this site is opposite a small trust hospital/ nursing home/ residential home, which pays about minimum wage, and consequently always has vacancies. The Manager consequently recruits from agencies in the far east, africa and eastern europe for staff, offering to pay for their flight, and giving them free accommodation for the first couple of months. these 'nurses' are then placed, 4 and 5 together into a 3 bedroom house.
the council, keen to create more affordable housing, accepted plans for 11 one and two bed flats on the site, complete with off road parking, in order to accommodate key workers, principally. now, this was not a large petrol station, and when these 'shoe boxes' went on the market, they started at £120,000 for the smallest. Now, I must admit, this is the cheapest property which has come on the market around here, but it is still approx 10 times the annual salary of the average care assistant at the trust hospital. And there is a further catch.. the crafty builders built in a mandatory £1,000 a year service charge for the lift, grounds, guttering etc (even if you live on the ground floor).
why? well, the builders never wanted key workers living there in the first place; they want 11 retired couples (from the South East) to purchase them; that is who they advertised them to, and during the open day, I don't think there was a single person under 60 who viewed...
OK, I'm sorry for the length of the story, but I wanted to highlight the fact that the government CANNOT rely on the private sector to build affordable homes for young, local people.... it is not in their interests to do so...
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Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson
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