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Blacksword 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
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 Posted: August 12 2008 at 05:49 |
 limeyrob wrote:
Point of order please. This drug is NOT a cure - which is one reason why NICE have made their decision. As I understand it this drug gives the patient a few more years.
I'm not going into the ethics of such a decision just merely pointing out a fact
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True, but I dont think anyone suggested it was a cure. The bone of contention is the alarming and extraordinarily low value stamped on human life/quality of, in 21st century Britain. When you consider the obscene levels of taxation in this country, and the size of the working, tax paying population, you start to wonder if the old 'we cant afford it' argument is actually true, or if we are just being 'diddled' and short changed.
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limeyrob
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: January 15 2005
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 1402
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Posted: August 11 2008 at 16:17 |
Point of order please. This drug is NOT a cure - which is one reason why NICE have made their decision. As I understand it this drug gives the patient a few more years.
I'm not going into the ethics of such a decision just merely pointing out a fact
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Jared
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 06 2005
Location: Hereford, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 19892
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Posted: August 11 2008 at 11:01 |
Blacksword wrote:
Everything is driven by cost, sadly, and as far as the Pharma companies go, human suffering is big business. |
That's about the size of it...if the cost of an expensive drug that cures 10 people from a terminal illness is the same as 1000 hip replacements, then the latter tends to win, as it fits in with the governments election promises for targets/ quotas shorting of waiting lists.
What I find quite fascinating is that our essential premise of the NHS is based on a philosophy which originated before the French revolution...namely Jeremy Bentham's Utilitarianism which believes that stability within society may be achieved by providing the greatest happiness for the greatest number of people. This might sound very simple, but its actually quite profound. The unfortunate bi-product of such a philosophy will always be the small minority who are made more miserable as a consequence, who have to be sacrificed in the name of social progress for the majority...
...this moral sentiment still affects the core of our NHS today, given that resources are finite... 
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Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson
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Wilcey
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2696
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Posted: August 11 2008 at 08:00 |
Thankyou kind sir! 
If just one NICE executive gave up their company car, it could save the lives (or indeed improve the deaths) of up to 4 Renal Cancer patients.
I have no idea how they sleep at night!
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
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Posted: August 11 2008 at 06:54 |
prog-chick wrote:
Ah, but as this is the RANTING room, and not the "Sit back and take a long rational look" room, I stand by my original post!
and I am still FLIPPIN angry!  Effectively NICE have decided which diseases/ailments are 'worth' treating and which are not. Renal Cancer effects about 7,000 a year in the UK, about 2/3'ds of this number are terminal conditions. Are NICE just shrugging their shoulders and thinking 7,000 is a relatively small number of people? Do they think that as it's not a drug that effects 7 million they can get away with those folk dying without a massive uprising of angry souls?
Again, I go back to the point, this is a place to RANT, and I reserve my RANTING rights! |
Oh, dont get me wrong, it's a situation worthy of the most venomous of rants, and your's was a fine one..  I can only try to imagine how someone would feel being denied these vital treatments in 21C Britain. It makes you realise that you are effectively a number on a database, to these people and not a living soul. NICE are effectively sentencing people to death, because their condition doesn't score high enough on their illness charts! 
Rant justified!
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Wilcey
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2696
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Posted: August 11 2008 at 05:44 |
Ah, but as this is the RANTING room, and not the "Sit back and take a long rational look" room, I stand by my original post!
and I am still FLIPPIN angry! Effectively NICE have decided which diseases/ailments are 'worth' treating and which are not. Renal Cancer effects about 7,000 a year in the UK, about 2/3'ds of this number are terminal conditions. Are NICE just shrugging their shoulders and thinking 7,000 is a relatively small number of people? Do they think that as it's not a drug that effects 7 million they can get away with those folk dying without a massive uprising of angry souls?
Again, I go back to the point, this is a place to RANT, and I reserve my RANTING rights!
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
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Posted: August 08 2008 at 13:44 |
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^^^ The buck stops with the w*****s in government. They decide how much tax we pay, and how much of that revenue is earmarked for the NHS. NICE work out the 'value' of drug treatments based on how much money there is in the pot. Thats my, slightly over simplified understanding of the situation.
Everything is driven by cost, sadly, and as far as the Pharma companies go, human suffering is big business.
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Wilcey
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2696
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Posted: August 08 2008 at 11:37 |
NICE
National Institute for Clinical Excellence announced yesterday that drugs routinely available to treat late stage Renal Cancer (by 'late stage' I mean pretty much as far gone as it gets , and by 'treat' I mean ensure a decent standard of life, and maybe and extension of a few months) is no longer financially viable. Despite regular usage in all western european states and USA.
Now, NICE is funded by the UK governement to the tune of 30 million a year. (take a moment with that would you...THIRTY MILLION A YEAR) just the cost of one 'company car' would/could extend a life/save a lfe/give someone dignity in death. We are talking £24k for years worth of medication.
I don't quite know who to shout at, the greedy selfish, hanging off the coat tails of Govt.for big payouts types who work for NICE. Gordon (now let me screw the nation) Brown, or the pharmaceutical mougals.
But I can assure you I am FLIPPING angry. Too angry even for the Ranting Room.
and I am exhausted.
Fingers crossed chaps, for a brighter, fairer future.
Edited by prog-chick - August 08 2008 at 11:38
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TGM: Orb
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 21 2007
Location: n/a
Status: Offline
Points: 8052
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Posted: July 25 2008 at 17:17 |
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YARK!
Went *shopping* yesterday, and, for some reason, there were almost no trousers that would fit. I'm not ridiculously tall (6'1"ish) and I'm not ridiculously thin (30" waist or so), but, seriously, the trouser-hunting (I suppose if I stopped my anti-jeans policy, I'd be fine) did not go altogether swimmingly.
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Man Erg
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: August 26 2004
Location: Isle of Lucy
Status: Offline
Points: 7456
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Posted: July 25 2008 at 16:41 |
FORLOCKS!
I've been having problems trying to posts an dupdate and correct my posts for the past two weeks and I have come to the end of my tether!
I try to post a reply etc. and I get some sort of server time out message. It happens on whatever pc I use.
This is really getting on my nerves.
I tried to complain on the proper {Report Bugs Here} thread but it wouldn't upload!
MOLLUSCS!
Oh! I give up!!!
Edited by Man Erg - July 25 2008 at 16:49
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Do 'The Stanley' otherwise I'll thrash you with some rhubarb.
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Man Erg
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: August 26 2004
Location: Isle of Lucy
Status: Offline
Points: 7456
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Posted: July 25 2008 at 03:21 |
mystic fred wrote:
i decided to scale down from large expensive venues and extortionate booking fees and give the 'ol Shepherds Bush Empire a go later this year - i booked for the Groundhogs/Hawkwind/Focus show on 2nd November and Opus show on 20th, each show (standing) for £18.50 plus £2.25 postage fee, will let you know how it goes! 
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Hi Steve.
Are you getting mixed up with Nik Turner and Martin Turner?
It's Martin Turner's Wishbone Ash and not Hawkwind on the bill for 2nd Nov.
Edited by Man Erg - July 25 2008 at 03:21
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Do 'The Stanley' otherwise I'll thrash you with some rhubarb.
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ihatethesnp
Forum Newbie
Joined: July 24 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 9
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Posted: July 24 2008 at 21:09 |
I hate the snp....a party so up it's own arse as to be treated as a joke. It's leader is a cold fish and it's health minister is akin to giving Hitler the contract to install showers in Israel.
Why no one can see through them says so much about Scotland today. A country that has no real leader and a smalll insignificant party that says what it wants and is allowed by tv coverage to do so.
If i could could move away i would so. I hate how Scotland has become under the snp executive.
Edited by ihatethesnp - August 02 2008 at 19:17
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Jim Garten
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin & Razor Guru
Joined: February 02 2004
Location: South England
Status: Offline
Points: 14693
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Posted: July 10 2008 at 07:32 |
$11 per ticket is appalling - there are virtually no overheads in ticketing these days, with most people using their computers to buy online from another computer; ticket prices are way too high anyway for many shows - how can the venues (or indeed the agencies) justify these "administration charges".
I refer the honourable gentleman to my previous answer:
Thieving B  ds!
Edited by Jim Garten - July 10 2008 at 07:33
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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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Kestrel
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 18 2008
Location: Minnesota
Status: Offline
Points: 512
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Posted: July 10 2008 at 03:03 |
When I bought Yes tickets for their now cancelled tour, there was an $11 service charge per ticket. Ridiculous.
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mystic fred
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 13 2006
Location: Londinium
Status: Offline
Points: 4252
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Posted: July 10 2008 at 03:00 |
i decided to scale down from large expensive venues and extortionate booking fees and give the 'ol Shepherds Bush Empire a go later this year - i booked for the Groundhogs/Hawkwind/Focus show on 2nd November and Opus show on 20th, each show (standing) for £18.50 plus £2.25 postage fee, will let you know how it goes!
Edited by mystic fred - July 10 2008 at 03:04
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 Prog Archives Tour Van 
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: July 07 2008 at 03:46 |
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Just bought 3 tickets to the Cambridge Rock Festival and the booking fee was per order, not per ticket - which even though is still a rip-off, it's not as bad as I was expecting.
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What?
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Jim Garten
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin & Razor Guru
Joined: February 02 2004
Location: South England
Status: Offline
Points: 14693
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Posted: July 07 2008 at 03:41 |
That depends, is it a soul-less barn with appalling acoustics?
fandango wrote:
its an absolute  rip off.... its almost as bad with Midland Box Office and TicketMaster (nicknamed Ticketb*****d for obvious reasons...) |
Taking the Empire Pool (or Wembley Arena to you young'uns) example again, when we went to see Rush there last year, I bought 6 tickets, online direct from the venue, so there was no human interaction whatsoever; I just printed the tickets off at home - so why was I charged £3.50 per ticket "administration fee"?? OK, there may have been a nominal bank charge for using my card online, but not for every bloody ticket.
Thieving b s!
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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: July 06 2008 at 18:31 |
fandango wrote:
^^^having said that, the two Lydney gigs and one Bilston gig I have attended recently have set me back £12, £10 and £12 respectively...averaging out at £11.33....
the only question would be, do Panic Room, Magenta and The Watch in any way equate to Pink Floyd in 1972?? |
Or more acurately, does Lydney town hall equate to the Empire Pool?
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What?
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sleeper
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 09 2005
Location: Entropia
Status: Offline
Points: 16449
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Posted: July 06 2008 at 16:34 |
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Well, when I saw Cult of Luna at the Academy last week, the tickets cost me £10. However, to see Spock's Beard tomorrow will cost me £18. I wouldnt say the prices are unreasonable, especially when you wonder just how much will the takings be before everyone gets their cut.
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Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
Status: Offline
Points: 89372
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Posted: July 06 2008 at 07:51 |
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I went to see Gov't Mule, an American band, when they first played the UK 4 or 5 years back, for £7.50 but when I saw them the year after, at the same venue (Astoria 2) tickets cost me £12.50.
They were excellent both times but the first time was quite reasonably priced. I guess they underpriced them the first time.
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