Should Metallica be in the forum? |
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febus
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: January 23 2007 Location: Orlando-Usa Status: Offline Points: 4312 |
Posted: August 10 2008 at 12:29 | |
Yes this is Sunday, i had a tough week , i am tired so the usual high quality of my posts is taking a dive today Also someone next door is blasting Megadeth and it's interfering with my Toccatta playing in my place, doesn't match!!
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Pnoom!
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 02 2006 Location: OH Status: Offline Points: 4981 |
Posted: August 10 2008 at 12:19 | |
I can see how they were groundbreaking, and I can see the mild prog elements in their music (granted I've only heard MoP), but there's a difference between having prog elements and being prog. Edited by Pnoom! - August 10 2008 at 12:20 |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Online Points: 21138 |
Posted: August 10 2008 at 12:00 | |
Anyone who can't see the progressiveness in Metallica has a lot to learn about music in general ... I know this is a bold statement, but I stand by it. Comparing them with Kiss is ridiculous and only confirms my deepest fears ... most posters here simply don't seem to know what they're talking about. Fortunately they make it obvious for everyone to see ...
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micky
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46833 |
Posted: August 10 2008 at 11:52 | |
you're a better poster than that man.... if people think they belong here.. it might be for a reason other than being a fan of the group. Edited by micky - August 10 2008 at 11:55 |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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febus
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: January 23 2007 Location: Orlando-Usa Status: Offline Points: 4312 |
Posted: August 10 2008 at 11:47 | |
I am sure someday a KISS fanboy will come up with hard facts how Kiss is prog related and ask PA to have them included here as well
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micky
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46833 |
Posted: August 10 2008 at 09:57 | |
since when has M@X ever unilaterally said a group can not be added here... something smells.. and smells badly
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Online Points: 21138 |
Posted: August 10 2008 at 09:43 | |
A quick look at the PMT chart could also do you good. *sigh of frustration* perhaps I simply shouldn't be looking for serious discussions here ... the problem is: Is there any place at all on this globe where people can discuss music without being ridiculed? |
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micky
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46833 |
Posted: August 10 2008 at 08:04 | |
I had heard no to PR only when it was brought to his attention......that's news to me... and the PMT's I guess as well......... oh well. |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Ricochet
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 27 2005 Location: Nauru Status: Offline Points: 46301 |
Posted: August 10 2008 at 07:40 | |
Well then case closed. |
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Pnoom!
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 02 2006 Location: OH Status: Offline Points: 4981 |
Posted: August 10 2008 at 07:37 | |
*sigh of relief* Perhaps you could make a sticky thread of all the big name bands whose names are floated every so often (like Metallica) but who have been rejected by Max? Edited by Pnoom! - August 10 2008 at 07:38 |
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: February 21 2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 15585 |
Posted: August 10 2008 at 07:34 | |
Just a reminder that M@x has said no to Metallica being added at all.
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laplace
Prog Reviewer Joined: October 06 2005 Location: popupControl(); Status: Offline Points: 7606 |
Posted: August 10 2008 at 06:37 | |
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Pnoom!
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 02 2006 Location: OH Status: Offline Points: 4981 |
Posted: August 10 2008 at 06:12 | |
If you're going to make a straw man argument, please make better ones than that. |
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Ricochet
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 27 2005 Location: Nauru Status: Offline Points: 46301 |
Posted: August 10 2008 at 06:10 | |
Ugh. Micky's statement in blue is always bit stretched out, though I know it's his usual way of provocative vision. If you take a look at classic grounds on which prog rock still stands, if you take a look at the 1 billion topics debating what's the best of prog rock, you will actually notice there are plenty of "prog artists" that define prog rock. So for me, it's less important that (what follows is a purely fictional example) Sting would have made a prog rock album in 1977, influenced by the movement, but rather that bands like Van der Graff Generator were there from the start and through their most important, valuable work, made themselves prog artists without a shred of a doubt. Prog artists exists, prog music is of course general, but when talking about Metallica, you can't of course talk about prog music (as in general work), but about prog albums. Now the procedure to focus on music/albums/compositions/riffs/silences/whatever instead of judging an artist is already old, since the issue of "completeness" in creating these archives were several times stuck when reaching an artist that's not progressive by default, but made several albums that tent to have progressive leanings. Metallica has 4 prog-metal albums? Suure, it's more than one prog album anyway, but still...how convenient! Let's just the range of prog artists has ended, and we can go into picking every prog albums non-prog artists have ever done! To me a complete Archives, guys, ya! Thing is major opinions about how to gestion the prog archiving were always duplicitary: When talking about additions
Maybe we're on the verge of becoming original in describing and defining the whole movement of prog rock - separating from most of the other sites and chronicles and such - but the sudden urge to take each artist from this Universe and find what prog bit he made in his life is not the good direction, IMO. I'm sorry for this rant, you can blame it on me being confused and a bit unsatisfyed with some reasons pointed out here. |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Online Points: 21138 |
Posted: August 10 2008 at 05:53 | |
^ so let's just limit the list of artists to Genesis.
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Pnoom!
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 02 2006 Location: OH Status: Offline Points: 4981 |
Posted: August 10 2008 at 05:47 | |
This isn't "Anything that at any point ever vaguely resembled something in the general vicinity of the outer reaches of the outer reaches of the most liberal definition of prog rock Archives," it's "Prog Archives" |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Online Points: 21138 |
Posted: August 10 2008 at 05:35 | |
^ I won't answer this ... I'm sick of people manipulating my statements.
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Avantgardehead
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 29 2006 Location: Dublin, OH, USA Status: Offline Points: 1170 |
Posted: August 10 2008 at 05:16 | |
Several different reasons. The whole "I like it so it's prog" argument, etc. etc. ANYWAY I don't see influence as being reason enough to add something like Metallica to this site. Surely we can all know and love Metallica (except for me) despite not having a section here? My biggest issue is that I don't see how it would benefit the site at all... I also don't believe in retroactively labeling something, especially all these influential bands. For example, let's say a group of strapping young lads all really like Sleepytime Gorilla Museum and are really influenced by their music, yet their band plays indie pop. This band eventually becomes really famous and inspires a whole group of artists in the similar vein. Surely this doesn't make Sleepytime Gorilla Museum indie pop now, right? |
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http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Online Points: 21138 |
Posted: August 10 2008 at 05:05 | |
Now that does annoy me. This has always been the policy of the PMT ... why else would Blind Guardian be here for example? I have always been the first to point out that we should be looking at albums, not artists. Edited by MikeEnRegalia - August 10 2008 at 05:17 |
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Rocktopus
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 02 2006 Location: Norway Status: Offline Points: 4202 |
Posted: August 10 2008 at 04:24 | |
Using Miles Davis inclusion in jazzrockfusion as an argument for adding Metallica to prog-metal, is as absurd as it gets.
I was thinking that with the addition of Miles, that not Metallica but Herbie Hancock whould be a natural next. I suppose if Metallica gets added, I should use them as my main argument to get Herbie in. Makes a lot of sense, eh?
Why are you suggesting that them being american got anything to do with people questioning their relevance for the PA? Are american bands and artists being discriminated? Btw: My impression is that non-metallers know Metallica (I got all their 80's albums, and I've owned them since I was a kid) a whole lot better than most of you metalheads seem know electric Miles. Edited by Rocktopus - August 10 2008 at 06:43 |
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