Dream Theater

rogerthat wrote: dtguitarfan wrote: Did I not clearly make a distinction between love and respect? Somebody help me out here please.... Yes, your friend may choose Beatles and Pink Floyd over DT. But does he respect DT? That's all I said... Like me, he likes the early albums and doesn't care for a lot of the later output. I don't see the point here...if an album is not to somebody's liking, what difference does it make if the musicians are talented or mediocre?  A mediocre album remains a mediocre one, even if it involves a high level of technicality.  You don't mean to say there are no mediocre jazz rock albums?

I'm saying there's a difference between liking music because you enjoy it, and respecting it. I like Dream Theater. I don't like Behold the Arctopus, but I respect them.

Let me put it this way. Suppose you had a daughter. Suppose she got into gymnastics. And suppose a friend told you "oh, then you MUST like (insert olympian's name here)." Your reply might go something like this: well, I never knew much about gymmastics, and while I find watching my daughter do a gymnastics routine to be beautiful thing, I don't really enjoy watching other people do them. But I can respect their ability.

Do you see the difference? Now, your friend, the gymnastics expert, DOES find beauty in those amazing olympians, though you don't. But that's ok. But you can at least respect the Olympians. But if you said to your friend "oh pff, I don't see why anyone would want to watch those people. It's so over the top!" Your friend would most likely have a hard time understanding why you can't at least respect their ability.

Horizons wrote: He never was, he was worse then.

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: Honestly I believe all DT members (Except LaBie) are virtuoso musicians

rogerthat wrote: dtguitarfan wrote: A) They aren't a very good musician and thus can't understand the difficulty, orB) They are such an amazing musician that they've forgotten how much work it took to get to where they are. I answered that before.  What does difficulty have to do with it anyway.   Music is not a sport though it seems from your earlier argument that you'd like some music to be Olympian as well.And you said earlier you respect something like DT which takes a lot to learn rather than something that takes just a week to learn.  My friend writes and play prog rock/metal and, obviously, listens to prominent prog metal bands like DT.  And he would take Beatles and Pink Floyd over them.  How long does it take to write something like Echoes, if at all one can...go figure.So I can vouchsafe that even if not every musician would disparage DT;s technical ability, they certainly wouldn't subscribe to the corollary that you proposed.

Did I not clearly make a distinction between love and respect? Somebody help me out here please....

Yes, your friend may choose Beatles and Pink Floyd over DT. But does he respect DT? That's all I said...

Ambient Hurricanes wrote: Snow Dog wrote: ^I already predicted that answer. But I don't hear it. You don't hear soul in the Mass in B Minor, or in "Air," or Wachet Auf?  Which Bach have you been listening to?  If there was ever a composer who could move the soul, it was Bach.

Portnoy is a lame drummer. :S

ExittheLemming wrote: This strikes me as a rather shallow argument e.g. what point would there be to music if it could only communicate how difficult it is to play? (I admire the accuracy of a trained speed typist buy I don't consider it art) However, it seems clear from the depth of feeling generated by this band that their fans get a lot more than just auto erotic pyrotechnics from DT's music. It's my loss I guess.

Well, if you read the whole thread, you might understand why I made the argument.  I'm not saying the only reason to like Dream Theater is how difficult their songs are to play.  But I was trying to explain one of the reasons Dream Theater fans are so, to quote another user, "crazy about them."  And for me, it's because I understand how inhuman their ability to play their instruments is.  I also explained that if that were the only reason I listened to their music, my favorite band would not be Dream Theater but would be something like Behold the Arctopus.

^I already predicted that answer. But I don't hear it.

I agree. Dream Theater's music doesn't lack emotion, but when they get emotional, they often get awful, especially in their ballads which combine the camp of mainstream pop and 'urban' R&B with listless melodies. Together with their pseudo-heavy, chugging 'modern metal' tendencies from Train of Thought onwards, this is DT's main drawback in my eyes.

Not that I have anything against emotional music or ballads. I actually like DT best when they go for pompous, D&D-type cheesiness. My favorite tracks of theirs are "Under a Glass Moon" and "In the Presence of Enemies, Part 1".

Their tech-metal stuff I appreciate and enjoy somewhat, but rarely does it really inspire me.


Edited by HarbouringTheSoul - May 06 2012 at 14:13

rogerthat wrote: Actually you did.  You said anybody who plays Chopin would surely respect what DT did.

Notice I said RESPECT, not LOVE.  Two different things.  Ok, I'll update my statement - everyone who can and does play Chopin SHOULD BE ABLE TO respect what DT do, and if they can't respect this:

then
A) They aren't a very good musician and thus can't understand the difficulty, or
B) They are such an amazing musician that they've forgotten how much work it took to get to where they are.

Basically, if I ever met an musician who heard what I posted above and said "I have no respect for that" I'd say to them "then play it."


Edited by dtguitarfan - May 06 2012 at 12:59