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kenethlevine View Drop Down
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Points: 9080 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2016 at 12:42
Originally posted by Aussie-Byrd-Brother Aussie-Byrd-Brother wrote:

It's funny you mention Genesis, Ken, because a lot of `Azure D'or' sounds quite similar to the `Trick'-era of Genesis onwards, even down to the drumming in parts. No doubt it was purposefully trying to emulate the popularity of that band, especially considering the producer was also Genesis' man David Hentschel.

Interesting just reading this on the Wikipedia page of the album, I had no idea about this detail:

"Following this album's release, Renaissance underwent major changes that left it with a very uncertain future. In 1980, following a short tour of Israel, both John Tout and Terry Sullivan left the band. Tout (who was dealing with some personal stress due to the death of his sister) had made a major mistake during a concert and walked offstage. After this it was mutually decided that he should leave the band. Terry Sullivan, a longtime friend of Tout's, then left the band as well on principle. On top of all this, the band's label, Warner Brothers/Sire, dropped the group due to disappointing sales of Azure d'Or"

Kind of bums me out learning that...

Re David Hentschel, he had coaxed the band out of its meekness with "A Song for All Seasons" which also met with their biggest UK success, largely due to the hit single "Northern Lights".  Unfortunately, the group's popularity in the US was already in slow decline after Carnegie;  if "Northern Lights" had somehow charted stateside, things might have been different.  As it was, the combination of the decision to continue to streamline their sound combined with the fact that employing the orchestra ceased to be financially responsible, both led to the disappointing result that was "Azure D'Or".
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Points: 7951 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aussie-Byrd-Brother Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2016 at 12:29
It's funny you mention Genesis, Ken, because a lot of `Azure D'or' sounds quite similar to the `Trick'-era of Genesis onwards, even down to the drumming in parts. No doubt it was purposefully trying to emulate the popularity of that band, especially considering the producer was also Genesis' man David Hentschel.

Interesting just reading this on the Wikipedia page of the album, I had no idea about this detail:

"Following this album's release, Renaissance underwent major changes that left it with a very uncertain future. In 1980, following a short tour of Israel, both John Tout and Terry Sullivan left the band. Tout (who was dealing with some personal stress due to the death of his sister) had made a major mistake during a concert and walked offstage. After this it was mutually decided that he should leave the band. Terry Sullivan, a longtime friend of Tout's, then left the band as well on principle. On top of all this, the band's label, Warner Brothers/Sire, dropped the group due to disappointing sales of Azure d'Or"

Kind of bums me out learning that...
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kenethlevine View Drop Down
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Points: 9080 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2016 at 12:15
Azure D'Or is my least favorite Renaissance album proper from the 1972-1983 period.  It's just so synthetic, and, with a few exceptions, utterly lacking in warmth.   The big exceptions:  "Jeckyll and Hyde", "Golden Key" and "Kalynda".  I much preferred "Camera Camera" and even slightly prefer "Time Line", both of which at least proposed a new energetic style.  Given what was popular at that time, any of a number of tracks from both albums could have broken the group to a wider audience, and then we'd all be complaining about how they sold out in the 1980s just like Genesis.  
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Points: 4812 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rednight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2016 at 12:14
Originally posted by Meltdowner Meltdowner wrote:

I found a copy of it earlier this year but the store also had "Live at Carnegie Hall". It seemed prioritary Wink

Yeah, it's one album I'm never surprised to see you mention on the other thread Tongue
Yeah, Live at Carnegie Hall is an amazing testament to the band's might.
"It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno
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Points: 7951 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aussie-Byrd-Brother Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2016 at 11:45
Ha, you should have just done what I do, convince myself `Why, I'd be crazy not to get BOTH of them at the one time, saves me traking it down later on'....even if it blows a particular budget I'd planned to spend! Same goes for EBay, combined purchases means cutting down on multiple postage costs, I'd be silly not to spend the extra and take advantage of that!

It's strange, I so rarely think to listen to the `Carnegie Hall' album. Maybe I'll dig it out for my last night of nightshift tomorrow.
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Points: 10278 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Meltdowner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2016 at 11:37
I found a copy of it earlier this year but the store also had "Live at Carnegie Hall". It seemed prioritary Wink

Yeah, it's one album I'm never surprised to see you mention on the other thread Tongue
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Points: 7951 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aussie-Byrd-Brother Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2016 at 10:26
Yep, just a pretty wretched track from them!



Still, `Azure D'Or' is quite a nice album, Sam, dont hesitate to snap it up if you come across the vinyl of it. It's hardly a rarity, you'll likely pick it up pretty dirt cheap.

Oh yeah, Annie sounds like a mad shamanic priestess or something! Although I have to admit, `Prologue' beginning to end works pretty well for me, mate! I never tire of that one, I still give it about 10 spins a year.
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Points: 10278 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Meltdowner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2016 at 10:18
He's not the only one to blame for that Tongue

Probably my favourite too, the last song is quite special as well Cool
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Points: 7951 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aussie-Byrd-Brother Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2016 at 09:53
There's plenty wrong with Jon's `Only Angels Have Wings'!

I love Jon's singing on `Kiev' too, Sam, wonderful tune as well.

`Prologue' is still my favourite Renaissance album. It rocks (but ever so gently!) that little bit more than the rest of their albums after that.
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Points: 10278 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Meltdowner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2016 at 09:48
What's wrong with Jon's vocals? "Kiev" is actually one of my favourite songs from Prologue.
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Aussie-Byrd-Brother View Drop Down
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Points: 7951 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aussie-Byrd-Brother Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2016 at 09:44
I do have a nice solo album from Annie from 1999 (I think) called `The Dawn of Ananda', which I seem to remember was lovely (but I probably haven't listened to it in fifteen-plus years at this point) if simply showing her age. I just remember being so excited because it came with her signature on it, which is probably why I bought it in the first place!
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Points: 9080 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2016 at 09:40
At the show I just saw Annie said they are planning a new album, and that there are still Dunford compositions in the can.

I'm a big fan of Jon Camp, and I think one of the flaws of the latest Renaissance album in the lack of muscularity in the bass which is so important for a band with no electric guitar.  I also thought he was a decent vocalist if given appropriate material, much like the various Camel vocalists.  Bye and large this was done, and "Kindness at the End" is to me his finest hour, a song which really spoke to me at the time.  I think part of his reluctance to rejoin might be found in the lyrics of that song  "Holding you near is a thing of the past, but my memories exist, and I hope they will last".

But, all that said, Renaissance can still be Renaissance even if Annie is the only long time member.  Mark Lambert does a great job on guitars and backing vocals, Leo Traversa does well on bass in the concerts, and the two keyboardists, especially Tom Brislin, are fantastic.  Annie's lyrics are not nearly as fascinating as Betty Thatcher's, but they are above average and it's nice to listen to a band where you can actually hear them.
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Tom Ozric View Drop Down
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Points: 15926 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2016 at 05:20
Yeah, well, Annie is Annie. I don't believe she could be replaced.
Annie looked hot on Time-Line
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Points: 9869 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2016 at 04:59
Christina wouldn't be able to sing most of the songs without their having to be transposed down. And some songs like Running Hard or Carpet of the Sun can't be transposed as they get pretty low (for a soprano/mezzo). That is the kind of difference I am talking about. Range is not an issue for an instrumentalist but it is for the singer. That's why they can't replace Annie..coz if anybody did have the range and power of Annie why would she not want to be known as a great singer in her own right instead of being Annie's substitute?
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Points: 15926 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2016 at 04:49
Replace Annie with Christina Booth !!
Well, I can agree that a bassist is a bassist , when you don't focus on the instrument / player. I equally love those early 80's Ren albums as much as the 70's albums.
The mellow mid-section of Day Of The Dreamer never fails to bring tears to my eyes, utter BEAUTY right there........(but on the other hand, I go and get off on Gorguts....no tears there, ha ha). Music is beyond amazing.
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Points: 9869 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2016 at 03:56
Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

^ But Jon (Camp) was THE bassist, and no-one will ever live up to his level of skill. Hell, Camera Camera AND Time Line would be average without Jon's outstanding bass playing. When I think of Jon, I immediately think of Chris Squire, and not just because of the Rickenbacker........
 
Wouldn't go so far as no one but the ones who could fill his shoes, like Squire or Geddy Lee, were already too big for Renaissance. The thing though is you can go gigging with a different bassist because unless the audience are all bassies too they will not care about the difference or just let it go. Different singer is a whole other ballgame. People complain about missing Jon Anderson when Trevor did a pretty decent job on Drama, what would Ren do without Annie? And I am guessing in the 90s she finally learnt to wield the power that a much loved frontman/frontwoman typically has in a band. I am not saying it's right, just my conjecture about what happened. She could now get by on her own even if it may not have been frightfully exciting whereas in the 70s she was quite dependent on the band. Michael wanted to have the old guys back per Jon Camp. But he must have also known the tour would collapse without Annie.
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Points: 1578 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kingsnake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2016 at 03:50
Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

^ But Jon (Camp) was THE bassist, and no-one will ever live up to his level of skill. Hell, Camera Camera AND Time Line would be average without Jon's outstanding bass playing. When I think of Jon, I immediately think of Chris Squire, and not just because of the Rickenbacker........
 
That can be said about any band/any line up. But a band is also a team, and when a team doesn't work well, other will have to step in.

Again: Barclay James Harvest, Wishbone Ash etc. etc.
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Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

By the way wouldn't ever describe Jon as the other vocalist. He was the bassist, a very fine one at that, and a pretty weak backing vocalist. Everyone in the new band sings better than him.
 
He did sing a couple of leads; On the Frontier, Things I Don't Understand, The Captive Heart (co-lead), The Sultan, Kindness in the End, She is Love, Only Angels Have Wings, Kiev and of course the Time-Line album.
 
I like She is Love. I would not consider him a weak vocalist. Maybe my memory is bad. I have to listen to his songs again.
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Tom Ozric View Drop Down
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Points: 15926 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2016 at 03:36
^ But Jon (Camp) was THE bassist, and no-one will ever live up to his level of skill. Hell, Camera Camera AND Time Line would be average without Jon's outstanding bass playing. When I think of Jon, I immediately think of Chris Squire, and not just because of the Rickenbacker........

Edited by Tom Ozric - November 07 2016 at 03:36
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When the band got back on the road in 2009, the three older members were supposed to join Annie and Michael too. But Jon Camp was apparently persuaded by friends to celebrate his 60th birthday and bailed out. Annie's hand picked manager said now or never, so she got in musicians who had worked with her on her solo albums. In the meantime John Tout had a heart attack too. Later when he got ok, Jon tried to talk to Michael and get back in the band but I am guessing Annie shut him out. What exactly is the problem between Annie and Jon is hard to tell. The official version is Jon used to dominate the band back in the day and Annie was apprehensive there would be too much friction between them. In reality I think she never forgave him for leaving the band back in '84 on the back of masterminding the debacle that was Timeline. By the way wouldn't ever describe Jon as the other vocalist. He was the bassist, a very fine one at that, and a pretty weak backing vocalist. Everyone in the new band sings better than him.
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