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Chris S 
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Joined: June 09 2004
Location: Front Range
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Points: 7028
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 Posted: August 26 2010 at 23:31 |
 himtroy wrote:
Yes. And I don't think I need to take the "it's not as bad as alcohol" route either. I think I'll take the "people have the right to ingest what they want" stance. I don't really understand the logic behind making any substances illegal. People have the right to do what they want, even if it is unhealthy. Not to mention that people are getting their hands on any drugs they want anyways, except now it's giving business to shady criminals, turning many more people INTO criminals, and not allowing people to know what their actually getting in many cases.
The fact is, people's power to decide is just being delegated to....wait...OTHER PEOPLE?! Other people who can be just as wrong and right as they can? Whats next, do I have to ask the government I can eat unhealthy food? If drugs were legal and we educated people on the negative effects of say heroin, people would actually understand how bad it is (yes I know, their would still be some junkies, it's naive to believe that'd work as a whole). Rather than just saying "Pot is bad!! Heroin is bad! Don't do drugs!" Because then people (many younger people) find out that hey, pot isn't a big deal. Then people do legitimately harmful drugs because after all, it's all probably just propaganda (what dumb kinds think, not I).
Internet porn is becoming quite habit forming, as are TV and video games. Lets make a call and get them the hell out of here.
But whatever, I smoke pot every day anyway, and have acquired everything i've ever wanted with no issue. So it wouldn't change very much for me. |
A bit like a no control Olympic Games. Takes as many drugs as you want under the influnce of crack, horse, P. Should make for good viewing. TV audiences would sky rocket..
Another solution would be to be totally stoned, pissed, watching porn, the news, playing XBox, F&*king in Heaven all at the same time. Great pastime for extremists 
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<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
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Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
Status: Offline
Points: 16715
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Posted: August 26 2010 at 22:58 |
Alitare wrote:
Obviously texbook doesn't understand the concept of Bipolar disorder. What if someone is generally a happier, less destructive person while on medication? what if, without medication, they are uncontrollably violent and ill, hateful and abrasive, and it's based on vast chemical imbalances?
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Mental illness is a completely different thing and beside the point. Self-medicating with alcohol or street drugs never ends well anyway.
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: August 26 2010 at 13:34 |
Epignosis wrote:
I refuse to smoke anything made after 1989.
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You're in luck Rob! I am fairly sure weed predates 1989 
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Conor Fynes
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 11 2009
Location: Vancouver, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 3196
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Posted: August 26 2010 at 13:09 |
It's a pretty dumb intoxicant, but hell, it will be extra revenue and taxes I won't have to pay for 
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himtroy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 20 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 1601
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Posted: August 26 2010 at 12:18 |
Yes. And I don't think I need to take the "it's not as bad as alcohol" route either. I think I'll take the "people have the right to ingest what they want" stance. I don't really understand the logic behind making any substances illegal. People have the right to do what they want, even if it is unhealthy. Not to mention that people are getting their hands on any drugs they want anyways, except now it's giving business to shady criminals, turning many more people INTO criminals, and not allowing people to know what their actually getting in many cases.
The fact is, people's power to decide is just being delegated to....wait...OTHER PEOPLE?! Other people who can be just as wrong and right as they can? Whats next, do I have to ask the government I can eat unhealthy food? If drugs were legal and we educated people on the negative effects of say heroin, people would actually understand how bad it is (yes I know, their would still be some junkies, it's naive to believe that'd work as a whole). Rather than just saying "Pot is bad!! Heroin is bad! Don't do drugs!" Because then people (many younger people) find out that hey, pot isn't a big deal. Then people do legitimately harmful drugs because after all, it's all probably just propaganda (what dumb kinds think, not I).
Internet porn is becoming quite habit forming, as are TV and video games. Lets make a call and get them the hell out of here.
But whatever, I smoke pot every day anyway, and have acquired everything i've ever wanted with no issue. So it wouldn't change very much for me.
Edited by himtroy - August 26 2010 at 12:28
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Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell?
I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance.
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: August 26 2010 at 12:03 |
thellama73 wrote:
The T wrote:
Textbook wrote:
Rocktopus: Left to their own devices, people make the wrong choices. Call me cynical but they do. It's why anarchy doesn't work. They're selfish and shortsighted. Wanting to get high, thus creating an environment where their minds and bodies don't function properly, paving the way for any number and type of disasters, is part of that. |
And YOU know which the "right" choices are because.... ? 
"Left to their own devices".... So you prefer them to be directed and ordered by a superior power? What if said superior power (not a god since I know you don't believe) actually decides drugs are good for them? Would that make it ok? Who is then to decide?
That's why you need every person able of making their own choices... YOU are selfish and shortsighted when you want to impose your view on the rest...
(damn I sounded libertarian there......(just don't tell Shields..) well, it fits: social libertarian + economical free-market socialist  ) |
I think we may actually be have some impact on you, T. There's hope for you yet. 
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I've always been on the libertarian side of things when it comes to personal decisions. I'm leftie when it comes to things like healthcare, social security, taxes, etc...
Now I know Shields would say "it's a delusion that you can have personal freedom if you don't have economical freedom". Well, I don't think having a few obbligations really amount to lack of economical freedom...
Now we have our own thread so let's keep this one green...
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32524
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Posted: August 26 2010 at 11:55 |
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thellama73
Collaborator
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Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
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Posted: August 26 2010 at 11:54 |
The T wrote:
Textbook wrote:
Rocktopus: Left to their own devices, people make the wrong choices. Call me cynical but they do. It's why anarchy doesn't work. They're selfish and shortsighted. Wanting to get high, thus creating an environment where their minds and bodies don't function properly, paving the way for any number and type of disasters, is part of that. |
And YOU know which the "right" choices are because.... ?
"Left to their own devices".... So you prefer them to be directed and ordered by a superior power? What if said superior power (not a god since I know you don't believe) actually decides drugs are good for them? Would that make it ok? Who is then to decide?
That's why you need every person able of making their own choices... YOU are selfish and shortsighted when you want to impose your view on the rest...
(damn I sounded libertarian there......(just don't tell Shields..) well, it fits: social libertarian + economical free-market socialist ) |
I think we may actually be have some impact on you, T. There's hope for you yet.
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The T
Special Collaborator
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Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: August 26 2010 at 11:50 |
Epignosis wrote:
I refuse to smoke anything made after 1989.
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Good. But crack cocaine was invented around the late-70's, mid-eighties so I'll be sending some down your way...
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: August 26 2010 at 11:49 |
Textbook wrote:
But why is life necessarily better with them? What would be bad about people outgrowing them and living with a clear mind free of dependencies? Don't you find it alarming that you require medication to feel at ease and happy? Don't you concede that there will be deaths due to people being stoned or drunk during times of crisis or conflict? For example, if a house catches fire, and those inside are drunk or high, they are far less likely to respond appropriately. |
People will always be people and they always will depend on something, even if it's on other people or just stuff. Stop dreaming about your mind free of dependencies... That doesn't exist. Some people are freer but all of us have dependencies, obviously not all of them harmful or even too noticeable.
Your replies are rather weak Textbook. What the hell has the fire example to do with anything? Those people inside the house could've been f**king also and if the house catches fire they will have less ability to react accordingly. It's up to everybody to do what they please. Know the risks, and do it if you want.
What kind of chained society do you want where everybody fits your personal description of a free person but isn't really free? You want an atheist society where eveyrbody's morals and actions fit your molds.... Damn, and somebody said I was the Stalinist one...
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
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Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32524
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Posted: August 26 2010 at 11:44 |
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I refuse to smoke anything made after 1989.
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The T
Special Collaborator
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Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: August 26 2010 at 11:43 |
Alitare wrote:
Sigh, anything can be habit forming, you've gotta differentiate between physiological dependence and psychological dependence. While Weed is honestly not very physiologically addictive, it could very well be psychologically addictive.
Then again, most anything can be psychologically addicting.
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Dependence is the term used to psychological need. Addiction is the one used for physiological need.
THC (weed) can create dependence as evidenced by a friend of mine who needed 5 joints a day. We found that weed together about 10 years ago. I used it like 1 a month, he used it 5 times a day. But then he eventually was able to leave it behind.
But it's true, everything can be habit forming. Everything.
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
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Posted: August 26 2010 at 11:41 |
Chris S wrote:
^ You cannot say pot is a non - habit forming drug. I knew many people that had to have their daily fix of THC |
Who cares? I know many people who need their daily fix of Seinfeld. That doesn't mean they will go through withdrawal if they miss an episode.
If your mind turns something into a routine, you feel compelled to stay with it. But that' your mind, not the thing itself. Pot doesn't have the same affect on people like cigarettes, for instance. My argument was that there are no ingredients within pot that make people dependent on it.
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: August 26 2010 at 11:41 |
Textbook wrote:
Rocktopus: Left to their own devices, people make the wrong choices. Call me cynical but they do. It's why anarchy doesn't work. They're selfish and shortsighted. Wanting to get high, thus creating an environment where their minds and bodies don't function properly, paving the way for any number and type of disasters, is part of that. |
And YOU know which the "right" choices are because.... ?
"Left to their own devices".... So you prefer them to be directed and ordered by a superior power? What if said superior power (not a god since I know you don't believe) actually decides drugs are good for them? Would that make it ok? Who is then to decide?
That's why you need every person able of making their own choices... YOU are selfish and shortsighted when you want to impose your view on the rest...
(damn I sounded libertarian there......(just don't tell Shields..) well, it fits: social libertarian + economical free-market socialist )
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Alitare
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 08 2008
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 3595
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Posted: August 26 2010 at 10:39 |
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Sigh, anything can be habit forming, you've gotta differentiate between physiological dependence and psychological dependence. While Weed is honestly not very physiologically addictive, it could very well be psychologically addictive.
Then again, most anything can be psychologically addicting.
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Chris S
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 09 2004
Location: Front Range
Status: Offline
Points: 7028
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Posted: August 26 2010 at 10:31 |
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^ You cannot say pot is a non - habit forming drug. I knew many people that had to have their daily fix of THC
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<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
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Posted: August 26 2010 at 10:23 |
You can't rule the world to fit your personal opinion of good and bad. You have to allow others the freedom to behave stupidly. Pot is a non-habit-forming, non-destructive, possibly beneficial drug that should be made legal wherever the majority wants it to be. That would be . . . pretty much anywhere.
I'm not going to go into my feelings about the hard stuff, because that makes things way too complicated. As far as pot goes, however, I can guarantee that you're doing more damage to yourself when you pull up to McDonalds than when you take a puff off of a reefer.
And once again, I'm saying this as someone who has read up on the subject, but never partaken of it myself.
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Chris S
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 09 2004
Location: Front Range
Status: Offline
Points: 7028
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Posted: August 26 2010 at 10:06 |
Negoba wrote:
I always plug this book and it's a little dated but:
Yes it's that Andrew Weil, but this subject is actually what he studied academically. He talks about mind altering experiences from eating hot peppers to exotic plants in South America.
We all do things to alter our consciousness, though it's sometimes more or less subtle. I'm drinking my black tea which has been at virtually every meal in my family since I was a child. Other families have wine at every meal.
I personally think that if you haven't experienced some degree of alteration of consciousness, you haven't live your life to the fullest. I'm old enough now that I look for those alterations in more accepted places like meditation and exercise, etc. But that's me in this place at this time.
I have a friend who is a ultramarathoner. It's better than crack but it's basically an addiction to your own endogenous opiates.
Complex issue.
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<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
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Negoba
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5208
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Posted: August 26 2010 at 09:45 |
I always plug this book and it's a little dated but:
Yes it's that Andrew Weil, but this subject is actually what he studied academically. He talks about mind altering experiences from eating hot peppers to exotic plants in South America.
We all do things to alter our consciousness, though it's sometimes more or less subtle. I'm drinking my black tea which has been at virtually every meal in my family since I was a child. Other families have wine at every meal.
I personally think that if you haven't experienced some degree of alteration of consciousness, you haven't live your life to the fullest. I'm old enough now that I look for those alterations in more accepted places like meditation and exercise, etc. But that's me in this place at this time.
I have a friend who is a ultramarathoner. It's better than crack but it's basically an addiction to your own endogenous opiates.
Complex issue.
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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Alitare
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 08 2008
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 3595
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Posted: August 26 2010 at 09:34 |
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Obviously texbook doesn't understand the concept of Bipolar disorder. What if someone is generally a happier, less destructive person while on medication? what if, without medication, they are uncontrollably violent and ill, hateful and abrasive, and it's based on vast chemical imbalances?
Also, what if you aren't addicted to weed, it just calms you down and makes you feel good every once in a while. Everything is drugs, man. You're only happy because variations in the chemicals in your body, anyway.
DRUGS ARE BAD, DON'T DO DRUGS OR ANGELS GET STEEL ENEMAS
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Should marijuana be legalized?
