The importance of music theory

tamijo wrote:   So now you are a better Music listener, congratulations.

Music theory is not a science. It's not an objective framework for how all music works. It's simply the methods of the western classical composers. In that sense, it's helpful in appreciating classical music, but not necessary. The same thing that makes classical music good is the same thing that makes the Ramones good. They succeed in moving people.  But, yes, it's beneficial if you want to know how western composers do things, and even outside of classical music, it can help.

I belive all music was created 6 years ago by god...

There is also the opposit, how much do the teoreticaly well founded miss, do to them not beeing able to stop analysing and just enjoy what they are listening too.

toaster mantis wrote: ... As a result, I sometimes wonder how much of the compositional content and details regarding performance I'm missing with more "out there" avantgarde/technical music.

I think this is over ... thinking ... or over ... reaching ... things. It "might" and "might not" have compositional elements that you would be missing, but in general, this is very difficult to determine in the 20th century music development, since there is no fine line for helping clear up where "mental" exercises (my word for compostion!!!) or experimental/improvisational music start and end.

RECORDING, over the past 50 years, has shown us that in concert, or just plain live in the studio, that improvisational material is also very good and then later becomes highly defined and valuable, although I have yet to see ANYONE try to do Tangerine Dream!!! Which adds another element to composition ... sound effects!

In the late 50's all the way to the late 60's and early 70's, all the improvisational and experimental theater and film and literature, and art, was not about ... "compositional" content, any more than anything else ... it was about the experience of it all and how you responded to it. As one quasi-philosopher stated, the medium became the message, not the original component that created the music in the first place, or the art itself.

Thus we became enamored with anything that was conditioned by the media, and you forgot the "source".

Without the "source", your question loses its strength.

Without the spirit of the human, your strength is gone. Thus, I, for one, being a writer that does not 2nd guess his vision or dreams, find that a question like this is much too mental to be able to answer a condition that belongs on the inside and can not be easily translated to the outside.

There are just as many elements in one piece as there are in others ... but we have not sat down and worked the new "elements" that deserve to be a part of music history, or any art for that matter, in order to be able to come up with a sensible discussion and answer for you.

Hope this helps ... it was not designed to confuse you.

I don't think it matters a great deal. I'm studying classical music performance at uni, and certainly knowledge of music theory hasn't adversely affected how I like listening to any music. The classical influence is probably what led me to prog in the first place.

Toaster Mantis wrote: Again, here I'm going by anecdotal experience but I'm curious to know how much I'm missing out on and how much analyzing music from an overtly formal/theoretical perspective in turn will actually limit your perspective.

As an idea, music theory is everywhere, manifesting itself in every way possible. With that said, anything and everything is legitimate. Don't worry about music theory as an analytical method.

Music theory often gives me ideas, whether it's just exploring new directions or outright breaking the rules. Music theory is a useful backdrop. Sometimes when I am playing stuff that is comfortable for me, I actually get too comfortable and stuck in a rut, and it is nice to think my way through to something different.

Interesting ideas, but to me the best music comes from those who learned the rules first.  By far.  Vangelis was always musical, from a very early age, and just because someone doesn't know how to write music, doesn't mean their minds are not thinking of "music theory" -- but just not in a way that is formally trained.  So, there are exceptions, but I think those are people of unique gifts and early environments. I think enough negative experiences with music teachers at colleges could probably overwhelm someone's innate gifts and directions to the point where they couldn't use them anymore because they wouldn't, kind of like a Pavlovian response to avoid the memories or introjects of pain.