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Atavachron 
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65268 |
 Posted: September 08 2015 at 00:13 |
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^ There's no doubt it's symphonic rock, I can tell that just from the small samples. Whether it's prog is for the team to decide.
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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Komandant Shamal
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: February 02 2015 Location: Yugoslavia Status: Offline Points: 954 |
Posted: September 07 2015 at 23:52 |
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i heard "The Black Codex" again in its entirety yesterday and could say that it's undoubtedly the symphonic prog at its best, and therefore the project would be the first-class PA material...
However, it MUST be listen in its entirety, and any symph prog fan who really have been listening to "The Black Codex" in its entirety will confirm that it's undeniably a pure symphonic prog.
BTW, i'v been reading about this stunning project @ Prog Sphere at the time when the project was started.
i'm afraid that the current PA symph team sadly lost something of their credibility after their ridiculous decision to reject one of the most ambitious symph prog projects in decades, and surely a damage to the Prog Archives is done by the symph team in this case. Edited by Komandant Shamal - September 07 2015 at 23:55 |
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amatala
Forum Groupie 
Joined: January 01 2008 Location: Brussels Status: Offline Points: 68 |
Posted: September 07 2015 at 07:37 |
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Yeah, the box set is the way to go for the full experience.
I am glad you like it - I have listened to the whole thing 6-7 times (which is no easy feat  ) and I do agree that it deserves more attention.But even if it got rejected here, other Prog sites are slowly but surely including it in their listings so it should start reaching more Prog fans! http://www.proggnosis.com/ARTIST_DETAIL.aspx?AID=13288 |
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ModernProg3
Forum Newbie 
Joined: August 29 2015 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 2 |
Posted: September 05 2015 at 15:13 |
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Thank you for your fast response. I had some problems with my profile and the username had to be changed in the end, so I couldn't answer. In the meantime I bought the box-version and am happy with the very nice booklet. Prog or not I really enjoy the epic journey so far. I listened to 5 of the 8 discs and thus far I've got the impression that it is well-made and deserves some attention. It feels really great to listen to such a massive conceptalbum. MP3 |
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: September 04 2015 at 11:39 |
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No hay problema. |
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mogol
Forum Groupie
Joined: September 26 2011 Status: Offline Points: 42 |
Posted: September 04 2015 at 07:13 |
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Then I misunderstood you. I apologize.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: September 04 2015 at 01:19 |
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That's the point, Orchestra and classical influences don't always mean Symphonic Prog.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: September 04 2015 at 01:18 |
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By the contrary. In the old days, we would had sent the band to Prog Related, we became far more open, we have admitted bands that are barely Symphonic BTW: HT and myself (The oldest members of the team) voted YES, only after reading the posts of the other collaborators, I changed my vote. Iván PS: The team hasn't remained unchanged, we had ad least 15 different members like Micky, Raff, ClemofNazareth, Cesar Inca, FragileDT, etc, etc. etc. Louis has less than a month in the team, HT returned last year after a couple years sabbatical, SouthsideoftheSky has more or less two years.
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - September 04 2015 at 01:23 |
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Smurph
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 11 2012 Location: Columbus&NYC Status: Offline Points: 3167 |
Posted: September 01 2015 at 09:44 |
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Symphonic Rock does not mean the same thing as Symphonic Prog Rock.
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mogol
Forum Groupie
Joined: September 26 2011 Status: Offline Points: 42 |
Posted: September 01 2015 at 02:24 |
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Since The Black Codex is considered not pure enough for symphonic, why is it not suggested to crossover or eclectic teams?
With all due respect, I think it more speaks against you. Any group that stays unchanged for a long time is apt to become at least a bit too rigid and overconfident, especially in accepting new ideas etc.
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amatala
Forum Groupie
Joined: January 01 2008 Location: Brussels Status: Offline Points: 68 |
Posted: August 30 2015 at 01:52 |
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I do recognize the fact that you choose your collaborators carefully, but you should also recognize the fact that sometimes they can be wrong. There is no such thing as Doctor in Prog with an official certificate or diploma, no one can be right in 100% of the cases and with a small team of experts it's quite possible that enough votes are wrong to have legitimate artists get rejected.
In cases like this where things are unclear and no one is sure, there should be a way to review a decision. This is clearly Prog, yet it gets left out. It's not Neo? Of course it isn't. It's not Symphonic? Well, I am not sure about that. But clearly it is Prog, yet no other team has the courage to evaluate it because of the length... You already have Chris on your site and his latest album is very similar in style with The Black Codex (also same musicians play on both). http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=43048 This album is already wrongly listed as Neo Prog as it has nothing to do with that. I understand that this site does not have the flexibility of RYM where different albums of the same artist can belong to different genres (and this is a very strong limitation IMO as many Prog artists go across diferent genres), but not having the flexibility of adding a stylistically similar album by the same artist (just under a different name) is something I cannot easily understand. Moreover this is probably a one-time project, which has only an album (of more than 7 hours!) and may never release another album ever again so it will never get re-evaluated. I think you should be able to go past your rigid procedures and rules and recognize the fact that in some cases exceptions are necessary. |
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Andy Webb
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin Joined: June 04 2010 Location: Terria Status: Offline Points: 13298 |
Posted: August 29 2015 at 20:45 |
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Ok, everyone calm down.
Amatala, please recognize that we choose our collaborators carefully for their expertise in the genres that they work in, and I have full confidence that they chose correctly in this assessment. When the band releases another album, they can absolutely be re-evaluated and perhaps admitted for their new material. And Ivan, please also show restraint in your explanations of the team's procedure, as some of your comments came off as a bit blunt. You were just in your explanations, but obviously amatala is frustrated and we need to show understanding. Any other questions can be sent to me via PM.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: August 29 2015 at 18:03 |
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There's a strong reason. It's not Symphonic.
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amatala
Forum Groupie
Joined: January 01 2008 Location: Brussels Status: Offline Points: 68 |
Posted: August 29 2015 at 17:15 |
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Well, thanks for the insight. As I suspected, there is no real strong reason for rejection - just everyone's feeling that there's something odd about it. It's a pity that no one has taken the proper time to listen a few times to the whole thing and try to understand it properly. By including it on this site I was just hoping the project to get a better exposure to the Prog community.
Edited by amatala - August 29 2015 at 17:15 |
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: August 29 2015 at 15:39 |
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If you don't like it, bad luck. BTW: We explain our reasons in the thread in the Collaborators section, because when we did it in an open thread there was chaos. As a fact we are one of the teams who explain member by member our position
I voted yes at first, and HT also, but the rules of the site say 3 yes votes and no negative votes, by¿ut my final opimnion was different
We sent it to Neo Prog and we received this reply So the decision is taken, and discussed largely by two teams. Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - August 29 2015 at 15:42 |
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amatala
Forum Groupie
Joined: January 01 2008 Location: Brussels Status: Offline Points: 68 |
Posted: August 29 2015 at 14:57 |
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The important thing to understand about PA is that it works like a family owned business.
Only PA teams get to decide what's right by their own undisclosed criteria behind close doors. When you reject a proposal, you should at least explain in detail what were the exact criteria of the rejection. You just say that YOU said NO and YOU have listened to at least one album from every band that YOU believe to be Symphonic Prog, which makes YOU know best... Erm... If you would just take a moment and think about how ridiculous that sounds... Anyway, all fine by me. I think we can both agree that it's your site and your rules, which means your Prog by your definition. Edited by amatala - August 29 2015 at 15:07 |
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: August 29 2015 at 14:48 |
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We spent enough time, we discussed it, but we couldn't reach an agreement. This is the most complete site and the most serious one, we have teams who search hundreds of bands and many are not accepted, we normally don't decide by what others say, we check each and every band suggested.
What other reviewers? Is it in Proggnosis?..............NO Is it in GEPR?......................NO Is it in Progressive Ears.?.....NO Is it in DPRP?......................NO Is it in Progressor?...............NO So, the band is not mentioned in the most reliable sites Now, Progwereld doesn't mention the word Symphonic once Our credibility is based in our teams, we always done the job and done it well, what other sites say is not too important to us, but it's a reference...Most people see Symphony as a synonym of Prog, or say symphonic to any orchestral album, we don't....We have our own parameters.
I have nothing to do with other teams, if they are rejected is because they don't fit here. Our call is NO FOR SYMPHONIC and I stand on it, despite I originally voted yes. If you like it great, if you don't, then it's your problem, but please respect the work we do, is the list we can ask. Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - August 29 2015 at 14:49 |
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amatala
Forum Groupie
Joined: January 01 2008 Location: Brussels Status: Offline Points: 68 |
Posted: August 29 2015 at 13:48 |
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It's not relevant what the past credentials are, anyone voting no on the inclusion of this clearly hasn't spent enough time to understand the project and see it for what it really is.
And btw this is not "my" project in any way, just something I thought I'd mention for this site to be the most complete possible and help others discover this excellent project. The fact that other reviewers can recognize for what it is (and I quote "refined symphonic prog" for those not speaking French) while the teams here cannot gives a serious blow to this site's credibility... https://www.facebook.com/theblackcodex/posts/852571364832630 http://www.progwereld.org/cms/album/christiaan-bruin-black-codex/ PS: Adding this Various Artists (Concept albums & Themed compilations) doesn't actually make much sense as this is a release by a single artist and it's not a compilation either. If no team wants to accept it, then assume your decision and leave it out of the site completely. Edited by amatala - August 29 2015 at 14:13 |
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: August 29 2015 at 12:02 |
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It's a full blown Symphonic album FOR YOU. Our team is very well informed about Symphonic, Bhikkhu and myself may be two of the only persosns that has at least one album of each and every Symphonic band here, we've been in the team for 9 years, we cleaned the genre from bands that weren't remotely Symphonic or added bands that were lost in Prog Metal (Before the PM team was created) or in Prog Related With Bhikkhu and Clem of Nazareth we made 275 bios in 2 months and created the genre as it is today, all our bios are original. Scott and Anton have been in the team for three years and have checked more bands than most of the prog listeners...Louis is a new member and wasn't in the team in that moment, so he is not respónsible Normally I'm the hard face of the team and reject the borderline bands, but in this case HT and myself voted yes and were MISTAKEN, I trust my team and they made me notice some aspects that I omitted, so I had to agree with them. But I agree 100% with my team members, this is not a Symphonic release, IMO should go to Various Artists (Concept albums & Themed compilations) with some similar projects like: Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - August 29 2015 at 12:47 |
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O666
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 20 2009 Location: TEHRAN-IRAN Status: Offline Points: 2619 |
Posted: August 29 2015 at 09:38 |
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I can't believe it wasn't accepted BUT I'm sure you mistake about Collabs and Teams in PA. IMO They are know music specially Progressive Rock music perfectly and they are professional . There are too many bands that suggest by PA forum members (like me) and maybe they (team members) haven't enough time to listen carefully to your "Long Time Project".
Perhaps they should spend more time for your released and IMO The Black Codex is a symphonic Prog band.
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The Black Codex (NL) for Symphonic Prog
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amatala wrote:
.