Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Damn Animals with Pink Floyd is overrated!
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedDamn Animals with Pink Floyd is overrated!

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 11>
Author
Message Reverse Sort Order
Rick Robson View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 03 2013
Location: Rio de Janeiro
Status: Offline
Points: 1607
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2014 at 11:38
NO Pink Floyd's album is overrated ! End of discussion !!


"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy." LvB
Back to Top
ExittheLemming View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
Status: Offline
Points: 11415
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2014 at 03:52
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

Punks were just a tool to make more money for the labels and backers, the prog musicians were getting to be costly, because they wanted to do THEIR thing, rather than sell moron music to the masses....
The great rock an roll swindle INDEED!

I'm with you on this ole bean.


Punk was a lot of things and yes sometimes moronic, but to level the charge of populism at a genre that is characterised by aggression, confrontational dissent, anarchy, left wing agit-prop, raw and visceral textures, nihilism and a proactive DIY ethos certainly must qualify as plain vanilla moronicConfused

everyone wants their five minutes of fame. Are you saying that punk actually had integrity? Punk was shallow and about appearance (not just style wise but how something comes across) imo. It did produce some good bands that were far too good to be categorised as punk like the Stranglers for instance but it suited those bands to fall into line. Everyone does ultimately.


Yes, I do think many of the original Punk bands had shed loads of integrity. It was, at least at the start, predominantly left wing, DIY, egalitarian, non conformist, proactive, agit prop, idealistic (the nihilism was maybe a US poison d'art?) Your post merely confirms a prejudice that confuses what we like with being something that is demonstrably good. (I'm guilty of this also, in every single review I've ever written, we all are from time to time) e.g..I like music X so it is too good to be called Punk because I don't like Punk and no music that I think is good could possibly be Punk so people who call it Punk are wrong. No-one can ever lose that argument as the goalposts are on wheels...Yes, I accept that every fly by night rock sensation has its share of poseurs and phoneys certainly (this High Street version of Punk that scandalised leafy suburbia was the one engineered by Malcolm Mclaren and Vivienne Westwood et al and has everything to do with the profiteering of ephemeral fashion and nothing whatsoever to do with a credible social revolution that remained strenuously underground before dissipating) My formative secondary school years were particularly fraught as I was the only critter who liked ELP/Genesis and the Clash/the Fall in equal measure, so was hated by both Hippies and Punks as being a sell outOuch I know I keep banging on about market branding but this is when the engineered brand loyalties foisted upon tribes of consumers first manifest itself in my book.
The biggest tragedy about Punk was that by the time it was assimilated into the mainstream, everyone looked absolutely the same, it was just another youth uniform etc



Edited by ExittheLemming - April 22 2014 at 04:19
Back to Top
richardh View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 28029
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2014 at 01:18
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

Punks were just a tool to make more money for the labels and backers, the prog musicians were getting to be costly, because they wanted to do THEIR thing, rather than sell moron music to the masses....
The great rock an roll swindle INDEED!

I'm with you on this ole bean.


Punk was a lot of things and yes sometimes moronic, but to level the charge of populism at a genre that is characterised by aggression, confrontational dissent, anarchy, left wing agit-prop, raw and visceral textures, nihilism and a proactive DIY ethos certainly must qualify as plain vanilla moronicConfused

everyone wants their five minutes of fame. Are you saying that punk actually had integrity? Punk was shallow and about appearance (not just style wise but how something comes across) imo. It did produce some good bands that were far too good to be categorised as punk like the Stranglers for instance but it suited those bands to fall into line. Everyone does ultimately.
Back to Top
sankalp1989 View Drop Down
Forum Groupie
Forum Groupie
Avatar

Joined: April 14 2014
Location: India
Status: Offline
Points: 42
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2014 at 00:27
Oops tht was a reply fo someone else
Back to Top
Dayvenkirq View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: May 25 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 10970
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2014 at 11:36
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by sankalp1989 sankalp1989 wrote:

Gold 20 super hits- Bonny M- rasputin n rivers of babylon...
orchestra night - eric clapton - wonderful tonight.. are few f ma fav's..

How did we get to Boney M from a discussion about Animals? Confused
That "spam" I was talking about.
Back to Top
cloudstr View Drop Down
Forum Newbie
Forum Newbie


Joined: February 08 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 7
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2014 at 11:31
Everytime i look my neighbour's dog i remembered that neverplayed sh*tty song. 
Back to Top
chopper View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: July 13 2005
Location: Essex, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 20030
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2014 at 08:04
Originally posted by sankalp1989 sankalp1989 wrote:

Gold 20 super hits- Bonny M- rasputin n rivers of babylon...
orchestra night - eric clapton - wonderful tonight.. are few f ma fav's..

How did we get to Boney M from a discussion about Animals? Confused
Back to Top
sankalp1989 View Drop Down
Forum Groupie
Forum Groupie
Avatar

Joined: April 14 2014
Location: India
Status: Offline
Points: 42
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2014 at 01:11
Gold 20 super hits- Bonny M- rasputin n rivers of babylon...
orchestra night - eric clapton - wonderful tonight.. are few f ma fav's..
Back to Top
ExittheLemming View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
Status: Offline
Points: 11415
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2014 at 15:51
^ I think Jane is really Janey who appears in Janey Got A Gun by Aerosmith?, which Moshkito presents as some sort of nadir of how bad rock lyrics can get. Funny, as it's a very good song with intelligent, confrontational and thought provoking wurdz ya dig broConfused
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2014 at 14:30
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

By and large, I don't consider lyrics all that important to appreciating the music.  
...
 
That's really sad.
 
For the longest time, and this helped bring up a Flora Purim, Gilly Smyth, and a Damo to a lot of music out there, and they were not the only ones, there was a VERY BIG MOVEMENT, in theater and film, that the voice, is also an "instrument".
 
I find it terribly sad, to see it all relegated to simply "lirics" in the rock'n'roll crap style, and not appreciated as a vehicle for another intstrument in the music.
 
This is the part that is the weakest in the PA when it comes to music and its history. In the end we do not care about inventive and different venues that brought out something else that was not there before.
 
But all we can think of is "lyrics" and Jane had a gun! Some "lyrics" come off stronger and more to the point and effective, and are better "acted" out, than sung, but we have lost the ability to tell the difference? Again, we have lost the ability to find and create new venues for communication, because we can only determine it by the "lyrics" that we like and understand?

Unhappy Moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, bloody moan.

Do you always have to be so condescendingly negative all the time? Is it completely impossible for you to credit the people here with a fraction of your discernment and insight?


...and who is Jane?
 
And you are so bothered that you have to spend yor time commenting when someone says something you don't like?
 
You're just being no different than I, except that you are showing a more negative old side than I am. I'm merely stating that there were other events and ideas that helped bring the music forth but in your mind it's all a fudged up stick of Harry Potter's! 
I've never read a Hairy Pooter book and only sat through a couple of the films, they're not my cup of tea to be honest, but don't let that stop you attempting to belittle me, so please do continue.

You may have something insightful and interesting to say, but you cannot seem to find a way to say it that isn't patronising (as your reply adequately illustrates) and that weakens whatever you point you are trying to make. It is possible to make a point and make yourself look more erudite and informed without making denigrating remarks about the people here on the PA. From my experience the "people here" are incredibly knowledgeable, well read, well educated and have a far broader outlook and breadth of experience than you ever give them credit for.



...that said, who is Jane?
What?
Back to Top
moshkito View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17513
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2014 at 14:03
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

By and large, I don't consider lyrics all that important to appreciating the music.  
...
 
That's really sad.
 
For the longest time, and this helped bring up a Flora Purim, Gilly Smyth, and a Damo to a lot of music out there, and they were not the only ones, there was a VERY BIG MOVEMENT, in theater and film, that the voice, is also an "instrument".
 
I find it terribly sad, to see it all relegated to simply "lirics" in the rock'n'roll crap style, and not appreciated as a vehicle for another intstrument in the music.
 
This is the part that is the weakest in the PA when it comes to music and its history. In the end we do not care about inventive and different venues that brought out something else that was not there before.
 
But all we can think of is "lyrics" and Jane had a gun! Some "lyrics" come off stronger and more to the point and effective, and are better "acted" out, than sung, but we have lost the ability to tell the difference? Again, we have lost the ability to find and create new venues for communication, because we can only determine it by the "lyrics" that we like and understand?

Unhappy Moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, bloody moan.

Do you always have to be so condescendingly negative all the time? Is it completely impossible for you to credit the people here with a fraction of your discernment and insight?


...and who is Jane?
 
And you are so bothered that you have to spend yor time commenting when someone says something you don't like?
 
You're just being no different than I, except that you are showing a more negative old side than I am. I'm merely stating that there were other events and ideas that helped bring the music forth but in your mind it's all a fudged up stick of Harry Potter's! 
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
Back to Top
moshkito View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17513
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2014 at 13:55
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

That's kind of the point.  Anderson remained a hippie.  That is his personal choice and I respect that.  But Floyd were more in touch with the people and seemed to grow up, seemed to voice the same concerns that maybe their audience had.  If one doesn't like to hear that being put on a record, that's fine but to conclude that to be trying to make music that sold is naive.
 
I think that one of the reasons why PF ended up falling apart was that the creative convergence between them began to fall apart.
 
You can see where Roger went, and even in his solo albums, and eventually CA IRA, which almost no one here has heard or will sit in for 10 minutes, because it isn't rock'n'roll in the top ten format that you gotta have it! David felt more comfortable just playing the lead in rock songs, that became almost meaningless, and then in a grand concert in Poland, his ego was bigger than the orchestra, that you can't hear and the music was created and conducted by Zbigniew Preissner, and what David did was criminal, and cheap and just another form of punk rock for the masses! The kind we call a rip!
 
I think that Nick is too comfortable with his toys to care a whole lot. I think that Rick was more interested in the "escape" fro the conventional music and his last solo album shows it. Still "composed" but very different. I kinda think that he missed the experimental side that helped add so much "ambience" to a lot of the work that they did, some of which became defined then as just some more rock and roll music and nothing else. Separate Rick's keyboard stuff from everything else, and it is bleeping insane and crazy and way out there! In some ways, he was the "alien" in the whole thing!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2014 at 13:48
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

By and large, I don't consider lyrics all that important to appreciating the music.  
...
 
That's really sad.
 
For the longest time, and this helped bring up a Flora Purim, Gilly Smyth, and a Damo to a lot of music out there, and they were not the only ones, there was a VERY BIG MOVEMENT, in theater and film, that the voice, is also an "instrument".
 
I find it terribly sad, to see it all relegated to simply "lirics" in the rock'n'roll crap style, and not appreciated as a vehicle for another intstrument in the music.
 
This is the part that is the weakest in the PA when it comes to music and its history. In the end we do not care about inventive and different venues that brought out something else that was not there before.
 
But all we can think of is "lyrics" and Jane had a gun! Some "lyrics" come off stronger and more to the point and effective, and are better "acted" out, than sung, but we have lost the ability to tell the difference? Again, we have lost the ability to find and create new venues for communication, because we can only determine it by the "lyrics" that we like and understand?

Unhappy Moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, bloody moan.

Do you always have to be so condescendingly negative all the time? Is it completely impossible for you to credit the people here with a fraction of your discernment and insight?


...and who is Jane?
What?
Back to Top
moshkito View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17513
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2014 at 13:30
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

By and large, I don't consider lyrics all that important to appreciating the music.  
...
 
That's really sad.
 
For the longest time, and this helped bring up a Flora Purim, Gilly Smyth, and a Damo to a lot of music out there, and they were not the only ones, there was a VERY BIG MOVEMENT, in theater and film, that the voice, is also an "instrument".
 
I find it terribly sad, to see it all relegated to simply "lirics" in the rock'n'roll crap style, and not appreciated as a vehicle for another intstrument in the music.
 
This is the part that is the weakest in the PA when it comes to music and its history. In the end we do not care about inventive and different venues that brought out something else that was not there before.
 
But all we can think of is "lyrics" and Jane had a gun! Some "lyrics" come off stronger and more to the point and effective, and are better "acted" out, than sung, but we have lost the ability to tell the difference? Again, we have lost the ability to find and create new venues for communication, because we can only determine it by the "lyrics" that we like and understand?


Edited by moshkito - April 18 2014 at 13:38
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
Back to Top
M27Barney View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 09 2006
Location: Swinton M27
Status: Offline
Points: 3136
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2014 at 09:14
Originally posted by sankalp1989 sankalp1989 wrote:

yup

Hello, Sankalp, Indian prog input! I salute you!
What are your favourite recordings?
Please don't say "Pink Floyd , Dark Side of the Moon"
Back to Top
sankalp1989 View Drop Down
Forum Groupie
Forum Groupie
Avatar

Joined: April 14 2014
Location: India
Status: Offline
Points: 42
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2014 at 08:26
yup
Back to Top
M27Barney View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 09 2006
Location: Swinton M27
Status: Offline
Points: 3136
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2014 at 07:53
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

LOL


He who spreads mirth - spreads happiness....
Peace!
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2014 at 05:05
LOL
What?
Back to Top
M27Barney View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 09 2006
Location: Swinton M27
Status: Offline
Points: 3136
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2014 at 05:01
Here is my Prog-gnosis (Out of five with two dp's)

Length (DSOTM 0.01) (TFTO 4.99)
Self Indulgence (DSOTM 0.01) (TFTO 4.99)
Musical Virtuosity (DSOTM 0.01) (TFTO 4.99)
Concept (DSOTM 4.00) (TFTO 4.5)
Popularity for popster (inverse) (DSOTM 0.01) (TFTO 4.99)
Popularity with music press (inverse) (DSOTM 0.01) (TFTO 4.99)
Popularity of your symphonic progster (DSOTM 1.00) (TFTO 4.99)
You do the maths !


Edited by M27Barney - April 18 2014 at 05:02
Back to Top
Chris S View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: June 09 2004
Location: Front Range
Status: Offline
Points: 7028
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2014 at 04:24
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

When I read the history of the post-WWII years, watch footage from that period, I am amazed by how Floyd were able to relate to important events and trends during that period, especially the late 60s to mid 70s period, and find space for it in their music.  This is not simple newspaper headline-quoting business, it's done more subtly and also captures the underlying emotions. Dark Elf made a comment about Vietnam and there's a beautiful line in Us and Them "Black and blue, And who knows which is which and who is who."  Is "For want of the price of tea and a slice the old man died" also a reference to the effect of price rise on the common man.   Waters may not have had too many literary muscles to flex but what comes through in his lyrics is a very perceptive reading of the world, one that doesn't sound hopelessly misguided circa 2014 and instead rings true to this day.  

So true, Waters perhaps one of the most politically outspoken musician's of this time and it was found in his lyrics way before Animals as you say DSOTM and earlier. The Wall still so prevalent even in modern day tours, much to Israel's disliking of his support of Palestine over the new wall being built in Israel. Finger on the pulse as always whether you agree or disagree with him. ATD another great lyrical work along the lines of The Wall and DSOTM.
<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian

...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 11>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.289 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.