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Neelus 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2012
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Points: 346
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 Posted: January 09 2013 at 02:52 |
 rogerthat wrote:
That would be a bit like how men often relate better to women singing more aggressively to violent music because that is closer to traditional 'male music' notions. Whether you like it or not, that already suggests the effect that stereotypes have had in shaping your tastes.
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Jon Anderson?  
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: January 08 2013 at 23:05 |
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And if it is so white, what is the problem? Does it HAVE to be made more diverse? Time will take care of that, don't worry, it's already way advanced, and many good things have come out of it. But I don't see a problem really. Why does rap have to be so black? Should we forcibly make it whiter? (not that I love rap or anything remotely close but it's an example).
Damn, so few caucasians playing salsa!
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Dellinger
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: June 18 2009
Location: Mexico
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Points: 12810
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Posted: January 08 2013 at 22:12 |
jude111 wrote:
timothy leary wrote:
As long as you don't forget rock owes as much to country music as it does to the blues. |
I generally have an allergic reaction to country music. It's the only genre of music I can think of that I cannot stand to listen to. Having said that, I've met people the world over who love American country music, even Middle Eastern friends and Chinese friends. (It's surprising how far country music has traveled.) Also, country music is not as white as is often presumed to be - there are many black country music musicians and fans. (Ray Charles recorded country music, as has Lionel Richie.)
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It's interesting, this thing about Country Music. I happen to like it, a bit really, not a fan, but it doesn't bother me at all. However, the equivalent here in Mexico, I guess it would have to be "banda" and "ranchera", I really hate it (specially banda); of course, there is "Mariachi" too, which I don't particularly like, but have better respect to it as a music genre (though I came to dislike it more given the tradition of "serenata" here in mexico, where a boyfriend would bring the music to his girlfriend in the middle of the night to court her, completley disregarding if he wakes up the rest of the block too, which I find a extremeley distasteful and a complete lack of respect for other people). However, the thing is, I feel like Country Music might sound more distasteful for people from it's original country, just as Banda sounds distasteful to me (and I've heard, for example, that "Flamenco" is considered distasteful in Spain, while I particularly like it).
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jude111
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 20 2009
Location: Not Here
Status: Offline
Points: 1754
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Posted: January 08 2013 at 20:41 |
If you have some pull with the powers that be, I hope we can get Flaming Lips into PA! 
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jude111
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 20 2009
Location: Not Here
Status: Offline
Points: 1754
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Posted: January 08 2013 at 20:40 |
Dayvenkirq wrote:
And that's why having a discussion on a topic associated with race is a dangerous idea. |
I think you're right. I looked for ways to delete this thread, I'm sorry I ever started it. It went off in directions I never wanted it to go. Sigh. :-)
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Horizons
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Joined: January 20 2011
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Points: 16952
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Posted: January 08 2013 at 19:24 |
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Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
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Points: 9869
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Posted: January 08 2013 at 19:20 |
In the midst of his rambling through tangents, Pedro has done justice to the topic. In the 60s and 70s, blacks in America had a distinct music culture and one that couldn't be sold effectively to white audiences unless they crossed over. Jimi Hendrix was not the first blues guitarist by any stretch of imagination but he rocked the blues and thereby became acceptable to listeners who expected to hear a 'white' sound. For a long time, actually even today, commercial success of black musicians was reflected in the R&B charts, not the Billboard. A genius like Wonder crossed over because his music absorbed eclectic influences and, even while retaining its black identity, appealed to those outside the community. It backfired for Minnie Riperton - not R&B enough for blacks and not rock enough for whites, and such.
We cannot underestimate the impact of cultural barriers. I am not saying they should be there, just that they are more powerful in influencing opinions than we might believe them to be. If you start a conversation about Indian music with Ravi Shankar, what sort of a reaction do you think an Indian would have to it? You may even be well versed in the history of Indian music, but the frame of reference to begin with creates some negative perceptions at the other end. Because he might reflect the starting point of the Western world's engagement with Indian music but he is not where it started for us. Indian music was alive and well long before him and hopefully will be long after his sad demise too. And please don't get me wrong, it's not a knock on his legendary status. No doubt he is a virtuoso and one of the best there is; all I mean is when you start with his name, it MIGHT suggest you are simply name dropping Indian musicians and don't really appreciate it deeply (even if you actually do).
I don't want to ramble on further in that direction before some of my statements become a target for dangerous racist assaults, but it is my view that cultural barriers associated with race unconsciously influence our choices in music. For blacks to play prog, we have to accept it performed in their own terms, reflecting their culture...it would be unreasonable to expect them to merge with more 'white' sounds in order that they appeal to larger audiences. That would be a bit like how men often relate better to women singing more aggressively to violent music because that is closer to traditional 'male music' notions. Whether you like it or not, that already suggests the effect that stereotypes have had in shaping your tastes. After all, just because it doesn't sound white/black/brown or manly/womanly doesn't mean it's no good.
It is not only the musicians who need to reach out to audiences, we also have to step out beyond the 'four walls' of our comfort zone. But if we deny that such a comfort zone exists, we have already given up the endeavour. I am sorry I didn't attempt to give a list of musicians to 'refute' the OP but I believe the question was why it is so and not whether there are any Afro American musicians in prog.
Edited by rogerthat - January 08 2013 at 20:26
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jude111
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 20 2009
Location: Not Here
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Points: 1754
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Posted: January 08 2013 at 19:12 |
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Horizons
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Joined: January 20 2011
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Points: 16952
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Posted: January 08 2013 at 19:08 |
jude111 wrote:
timothy leary wrote:
Perhaps your topic was a little inflammatory |
I don't think so. The members here posted reasonable and interesting opinions. But this Eldridge has said nothing about prog music; he only joined to promulgate his racist ideology.
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Irrelevent but i think i just noticed who your avatar is - David Mitchell and Robert Webb?
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Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.
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eldridge
Forum Newbie
Joined: January 08 2013
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 17
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Posted: January 08 2013 at 19:06 |
jude111 wrote:
timothy leary wrote:
Perhaps your topic was a little inflammatory |
I don't think so. The members here posted reasonable and interesting opinions. But this Eldridge has said nothing about prog music; he only joined to promulgate his racist ideology.
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How is my view not reasonable and interesting? True, I haven't said anything about prog but I responded to the topic. I have not said anything "racist". It's just that standard orthodoxy demands that people say certain things about race. I see it differently. And I don't "hate" anyone.
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eldridge
Forum Newbie
Joined: January 08 2013
Location: New Jersey
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Points: 17
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Posted: January 08 2013 at 19:00 |
jude111 wrote:
eldridge wrote:
What is the racial makeup of your community, neighborhood? I've found that diversity creates tension and hostility. Japan is an example of a racially homogeneous country which is quite harmonious. |
I've found that racism creates tension and hostility. I'm American but have have lived in France and then China for a decade. I've been all over the world. I personally *love* Africa, and there are many great cities and villages and UNESCO World Heritage sites in Africa and Asia. People love their hometowns, their home countries, their cultures and foods. You're living in a fantasy world, imagining everyone wants to live in the USA. I am quite sure you've never been outside the USA on your own. The place I've felt least safe in the world wasn't traveling through Laos and Cambodia or Ethiopia or Turkey or Algeria - it was America. Only in America have I had guns stuck in my face. I can and have walked through Paris at 3 am, Rome, Shanghai, Hanoi, Bangkok. But I wouldn't dare do it in an American city.
Thanks for getting us way off the topic of prog. PA is one of the few sanctuaries on the Net that doesn't have the rightwing crazies, but the first zombie has broken through the barricade.
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The part about people loving their hometowns, countries, cultures and foods is absolutely true. Yet, that is an example of homogeneity, not diversity. Do whites have a right to their own hometowns, countries and cultures? No, but everybody is in the world does. I wouldn't walk through an American city either. The most dangerous cities in America are East St. Louis, Camden, NJ, Detroit, Oakland and Atlanta. Paris and Rome are European, the other three are Asian. Of course, they're safe.
Not everyone wants to live in the USA but many do. Mostly from the Third World.
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timothy leary
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 29 2005
Location: Lilliwaup, Wa.
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Points: 5319
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Posted: January 08 2013 at 18:58 |
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okay I found it to be narrow. Prog is not American.Perhaps you are an American who hates America, I do not have a problem with that. Eldridge i am not sure about, I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt . So yes, as an American I do not care for the title of your thread.
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jude111
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 20 2009
Location: Not Here
Status: Offline
Points: 1754
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Posted: January 08 2013 at 18:52 |
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Edited by jude111 - January 09 2013 at 14:34
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jude111
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 20 2009
Location: Not Here
Status: Offline
Points: 1754
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Posted: January 08 2013 at 18:51 |
eldridge wrote:
jude111 wrote:
eldridge wrote:
They're are no racial hierarchies... Whites and NorthEast Asians( Japanese, Chinese, Koreans) have built the most advanced civilizations. This is no accident. Nonwhites from all over the world want to come in live white countries, not viceversa. |
Can we get this troll out of here?
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Could you please stop referring to me as a troll? I assure you, I'm not here to stir things up. Of course, I realize I probably have. What exactly do you find fault with in my statement? I ask you to prove me wrong. |
Easily. We're talking about prog music. You aren't.
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timothy leary
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 29 2005
Location: Lilliwaup, Wa.
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Points: 5319
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Posted: January 08 2013 at 18:49 |
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Perhaps your topic was a little inflammatory
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jude111
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 20 2009
Location: Not Here
Status: Offline
Points: 1754
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Posted: January 08 2013 at 18:45 |
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Edited by jude111 - January 10 2013 at 07:46
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timothy leary
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 29 2005
Location: Lilliwaup, Wa.
Status: Offline
Points: 5319
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Posted: January 08 2013 at 18:45 |
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And to name it Anglo American prog is very narrow to begin with.
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eldridge
Forum Newbie
Joined: January 08 2013
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 17
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Posted: January 08 2013 at 18:44 |
timothy leary wrote:
If Eldridge truly regrets getting involved in provocative topics maybe he should do a 180 degree turn. |
Yeah, I see your point. 
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Dayvenkirq
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 10970
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Posted: January 08 2013 at 18:43 |
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And that's why having a discussion on a topic associated with race is a dangerous idea.
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eldridge
Forum Newbie
Joined: January 08 2013
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 17
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Posted: January 08 2013 at 18:43 |
jude111 wrote:
eldridge wrote:
They're are no racial hierarchies... Whites and NorthEast Asians( Japanese, Chinese, Koreans) have built the most advanced civilizations. This is no accident. Nonwhites from all over the world want to come in live white countries, not viceversa. |
Can we get this troll out of here?
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Could you please stop referring to me as a troll? I assure you, I'm not here to stir things up. Of course, I realize I probably have. What exactly do you find fault with in my statement? I ask you to prove me wrong.
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Why is Anglo-American prog so white?
