| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
frippism 
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 27 2010
Location: Tel Aviv
Status: Offline
Points: 4160
|
 Posted: May 24 2012 at 09:21 |
 tamijo wrote:
frippism wrote:
tamijo wrote:
Im not in doubt that you dont like it, that was clear. But the question is, is it my problem, that you got this neurosis, beliving a little cigarette smoke, might be a real danger to your helth. You may be the kind of person, avoiding any kind of risk, not using cemical soap, never driving cars, only eating biodynamic food, using only biodynamic cloths ect. In that case, you are generally paranoid, sad story. You may also be the person, doing everything as most people do, in that case, Your problem is a tobacco neurosis. In any case, its your problem, not mine. We are all gonna die, smoking or no smoking, and we are ganna have a lot more fun, if we allow each other a little space, and some respect. Im fine with smoking outside, but im sick of this "perfect world", constantly trying to force everyone to be the same. |
Why do you think I'm enforcing everybody to be the same? There's a reason why I support something like gay marriage and oppose public smoking. Gay marriage doesn't affect me directly in any way, I'm just allowing more freedom to other people, without getting any actual physical damage.
Smoking doesn't have any benefit to anyone- in any physical way. Cars take from one place to another, cellphones can save lives, and connect people, and bad food is another story altogether. Cigarettes, are just bad- there's nothing real about them that's good, nothing that benefits you. The social pan of smoking is again- another story.
As I've stated before, I don't really think the minimal exposition I have to cigarette is what will kill me. I do say, that public spaces, particularly closed public spaces- the amount of cigarette smoke I have to inhale is disgusting- and when it's too much does hamper my current health (not saying it gives me cancer, just makes me nauseous). It also smells bad and makes me and everyone around me smell like sh*t. Is that fair to me?
|
Basicly im not sure we disagree, smoking is not great for anything but the pleasure of smoking, we agree. Smokers should not be allowed to smoke in planes, busses, resturant, hospital, we agree. What i dont understand is why make a fuzz about it, just because i hate the smell of heavy parfumes, im not all over the place about it, i just pull off a bit some times. On a side note i dont know why smokers, should not be allowed to run, smokers bars. Its just like with other theme bars (Gay - S/M - Soda only - ect., if you dont like it, dont go there. Seen from a helth view, you should not go to Bars at all, risks a all over those places. |
Yeah with that I can agree. If there's a bar that's theme is smoking, then yeah sure. I don't think law will allow such a thing though.
|
|
There be dragons
|
 |
tamijo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 06 2009
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 4287
|
Posted: May 24 2012 at 09:10 |
frippism wrote:
tamijo wrote:
Im not in doubt that you dont like it, that was clear. But the question is, is it my problem, that you got this neurosis, beliving a little cigarette smoke, might be a real danger to your helth. You may be the kind of person, avoiding any kind of risk, not using cemical soap, never driving cars, only eating biodynamic food, using only biodynamic cloths ect. In that case, you are generally paranoid, sad story. You may also be the person, doing everything as most people do, in that case, Your problem is a tobacco neurosis. In any case, its your problem, not mine. We are all gonna die, smoking or no smoking, and we are ganna have a lot more fun, if we allow each other a little space, and some respect. Im fine with smoking outside, but im sick of this "perfect world", constantly trying to force everyone to be the same. |
Why do you think I'm enforcing everybody to be the same? There's a reason why I support something like gay marriage and oppose public smoking. Gay marriage doesn't affect me directly in any way, I'm just allowing more freedom to other people, without getting any actual physical damage.
Smoking doesn't have any benefit to anyone- in any physical way. Cars take from one place to another, cellphones can save lives, and connect people, and bad food is another story altogether. Cigarettes, are just bad- there's nothing real about them that's good, nothing that benefits you. The social pan of smoking is again- another story.
As I've stated before, I don't really think the minimal exposition I have to cigarette is what will kill me. I do say, that public spaces, particularly closed public spaces- the amount of cigarette smoke I have to inhale is disgusting- and when it's too much does hamper my current health (not saying it gives me cancer, just makes me nauseous). It also smells bad and makes me and everyone around me smell like sh*t. Is that fair to me?
|
Basicly im not sure we disagree, smoking is not great for anything but the pleasure of smoking, we agree. Smokers should not be allowed to smoke in planes, busses, resturant, hospital, we agree. What i dont understand is why make a fuzz about it, just because i hate the smell of heavy parfumes, im not all over the place about it, i just pull off a bit some times. On a side note i dont know why smokers, should not be allowed to run, smokers bars. Its just like with other theme bars (Gay - S/M - Soda only - ect., if you dont like it, dont go there. Seen from a helth view, you should not go to Bars at all, risks a all over those places.
|
|
Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
|
|
frippism
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 27 2010
Location: Tel Aviv
Status: Offline
Points: 4160
|
Posted: May 24 2012 at 09:00 |
Dean wrote:
frippism wrote:
yeah it's gotten better  , at least they don't smoke in hospitals anymore. But yeah ciggs are everywhere. |
...in Israel. They are not "everywhere".
|
yeah that's what I mean!
|
|
There be dragons
|
|
someone_else
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: May 02 2008
Location: Going Bananas
Status: Offline
Points: 24293
|
Posted: May 24 2012 at 08:54 |
No, I don't smoke. I called it a day almost 10 years ago.
|
|
|
|
Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
|
Posted: May 24 2012 at 08:49 |
frippism wrote:
yeah it's gotten better , at least they don't smoke in hospitals anymore. But yeah ciggs are everywhere. |
...in Israel. They are not "everywhere".
|
|
What?
|
|
frippism
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 27 2010
Location: Tel Aviv
Status: Offline
Points: 4160
|
Posted: May 24 2012 at 08:45 |
Snow Dog wrote:
Dean wrote:
frippism wrote:
Well the only thing I can say is that Israelis don't seem to follow these laws... right now it is the implementation of these laws that is going on- we're not really good at that.
I would say you're metaphor's rather extreme, but it's specific to where I am, not as much to where you are. The point is that people smoke in closed public spaces, constantly, and in public places in general. |
Then you have a problem with law enforcement in your country, not with smokers that visit this website. Everywhere I have been that has a smoking ban it is strictly enforced, even in countries like France and Italy - so my perspective is not so much of where I am but everywhere I've been. |
^when i used to live there they smoked in the hospitals. I couldn't believe it.!
|
yeah it's gotten better , at least they don't smoke in hospitals anymore. But yeah ciggs are everywhere.
|
|
There be dragons
|
|
Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
|
Posted: May 24 2012 at 08:42 |
Dean wrote:
frippism wrote:
Well the only thing I can say is that Israelis don't seem to follow these laws... right now it is the implementation of these laws that is going on- we're not really good at that.
I would say you're metaphor's rather extreme, but it's specific to where I am, not as much to where you are. The point is that people smoke in closed public spaces, constantly, and in public places in general. |
Then you have a problem with law enforcement in your country, not with smokers that visit this website. Everywhere I have been that has a smoking ban it is strictly enforced, even in countries like France and Italy - so my perspective is not so much of where I am but everywhere I've been. |
^when i used to live there they smoked in the hospitals. I couldn't believe it.!
|
|
|
|
Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
|
Posted: May 24 2012 at 08:36 |
frippism wrote:
Well the only thing I can say is that Israelis don't seem to follow these laws... right now it is the implementation of these laws that is going on- we're not really good at that.
I would say you're metaphor's rather extreme, but it's specific to where I am, not as much to where you are. The point is that people smoke in closed public spaces, constantly, and in public places in general. |
Then you have a problem with law enforcement in your country, not with smokers that visit this website. Everywhere I have been that has a smoking ban it is strictly enforced, even in countries like France and Italy - so my perspective is not so much of where I am but everywhere I've been.
|
|
What?
|
|
Smurph
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 11 2012
Location: Columbus&NYC
Status: Offline
Points: 3167
|
Posted: May 24 2012 at 08:29 |
They don't even have special smoking bars in America- its kinda bull. I don't like public smoking indoors but if someone wants to smoke outside I'm not gonna stop them unless they literally blow smoke in my face.
|
|
frippism
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 27 2010
Location: Tel Aviv
Status: Offline
Points: 4160
|
Posted: May 24 2012 at 08:27 |
JJLehto wrote:
god damn, hate to interject again but yeah....like most things, what may have been well intentioned has spiraled out of hand. These smoking bans/laws are pretty ridiculous and if I was a smoker, honestly I'd be pissed off.
Six Flags has a smoking ban, except for tiny areas, as did my university, the entire campus property.
That means outside...if mother nature isn't vast enough for some people what is?
|
well yeah with cases such as a huge open public spaces it does seem a bit silly. But where do you draw the line? I think there should just be a smoking area (which isn't small, there are many smokers, I get it).
|
|
There be dragons
|
|
Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
|
Posted: May 24 2012 at 08:26 |
JJLehto wrote:
god damn, hate to interject again but yeah....like most things, what may have been well intentioned has spiraled out of hand. These smoking bans/laws are pretty ridiculous and if I was a smoker, honestly I'd be pissed off.
Six Flags has a smoking ban, except for tiny areas, as did my university, the entire campus property.
That means outside...if mother nature isn't vast enough for some people what is? 
|
I have no problem with smoking bans, and I certainly don't want them revoked. The anti-smoking lobby has won, they really need to learn how to be gracious in victory.
Edited by Dean - May 24 2012 at 08:30
|
|
What?
|
|
frippism
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 27 2010
Location: Tel Aviv
Status: Offline
Points: 4160
|
Posted: May 24 2012 at 08:25 |
Dean wrote:
frippism wrote:
Now but you see- in a closed public space- I can't walk away from the smell without leaving the closed public space! It's a problem ain't it. I want to be in a show, and the place smells like f**king ciggs. Will I leave because the place smells bad?
Some place like a coffee place isn't as bad, with constant air flow. But it still smells. Will I leave? C'mon. I'm sorry to hear about the whole pub thing, but I'd rather smell bad breath than smell ciggs.
But now I'm just getting to the subjective and nothing good and worthwhile comes out of that... |
Well, in the UK, USA and 99.999% of Europe those places don't exist - even Israel has banned smoking in public enclised places "The restrictions include all commercial entities such as lavatories, office buildings, gyms, cafés, restaurants, discos, pubs and bars, and it is illegal for the owners of such places to put ashtrays anywhere inside enclosed spaces"
So that's not "getting subjective", that's a rabid dog chasing parked cars.  |
Well the only thing I can say is that Israelis don't seem to follow these laws... right now it is the implementation of these laws that is going on- we're not really good at that.
I would say you're metaphor's rather extreme, but it's specific to where I am, not as much to where you are. The point is that people smoke in closed public spaces, constantly, and in public places in general.
|
|
There be dragons
|
|
JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
|
Posted: May 24 2012 at 08:18 |
god damn, hate to interject again but yeah....like most things, what may have been well intentioned has spiraled out of hand. These smoking bans/laws are pretty ridiculous and if I was a smoker, honestly I'd be pissed off. Six Flags has a smoking ban, except for tiny areas, as did my university, the entire campus property. That means outside...if mother nature isn't vast enough for some people what is?
|
|
Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
|
Posted: May 24 2012 at 08:09 |
frippism wrote:
Now but you see- in a closed public space- I can't walk away from the smell without leaving the closed public space! It's a problem ain't it. I want to be in a show, and the place smells like f**king ciggs. Will I leave because the place smells bad?
Some place like a coffee place isn't as bad, with constant air flow. But it still smells. Will I leave? C'mon. I'm sorry to hear about the whole pub thing, but I'd rather smell bad breath than smell ciggs.
But now I'm just getting to the subjective and nothing good and worthwhile comes out of that... |
Well, in the UK, USA and 99.999% of Europe those places don't exist - even Israel has banned smoking in public enclosed places "The restrictions include all commercial entities such as lavatories, office buildings, gyms, cafés, restaurants, discos, pubs and bars, and it is illegal for the owners of such places to put ashtrays anywhere inside enclosed spaces"
So that's not "getting subjective", that's a rabid dog chasing parked cars.
Edited by Dean - May 24 2012 at 08:24
|
|
What?
|
|
frippism
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 27 2010
Location: Tel Aviv
Status: Offline
Points: 4160
|
Posted: May 24 2012 at 07:57 |
Dean wrote:
frippism wrote:
@Dean- I'm sorry but I can't agree. Unless you're far away from me, it's annoying, I'm sorry it just is. But you're in the U.K., so you can smoke as much as you want.
It's kinda like someone constantly farting in public, only farting doesn't give me cancer.
If you do it at the comfort of your own home, then it's all good. |
The feeling is entirely mutual. Many things that non-smokers do annoy me, many things that non-smokers do offends me, many things that non-smokers do stink to high-heaven, many things that non-smokers do can give me cancer, many things that non-smokers do can result in my premature death. No one has the right to a holier than thou attitude. I'm not advocating that all non-smokers should shut up and live with the smoke from my cigarettes, that would be selfish and stupid, I simply ask that now they've enforced their moral indignation upon me that they back off to a safe distance and leave me the fripp alone.
People stink - it's a biological fact and a result of our body physiology - we are one of the stinkiest critters on the planet - your sweat sinks and grows increasing more repugnant, the fungal growth between your toes pongs like rotting cheese, your breath stinks of your last meal, your belches reek like the dregs from a fermentation vat and your ess-aitch-eye-tea stinks of the meal before that and makes sure all can share in its stinky foulness by farting early warning messages of just how paint-strippingly putrid your next dump will be. And then we try and mask all that natural toxic gas with cheap Walmart body spray yet all we achieve is the fragrance of a urinal toilet block that's been pissed on for a week. I don't like the smell of cigarette smoke and I don't like the smell of an old ashtray, but that's no worse than the lingering after-aroma of the human race. Since smoking has been banned in all pubs and bars I dislike going into them, not because I can no longer smoke, but because the smells they now carry are unpleasant, repellent and offensive - the stench of stale beer mingling with lingering presence of stale sweat, the air laden with eau de beer farts and garlic and onion belches competing with the unmistakable aroma of disinfectant and industrial strength cleaning fluid wafting in from the toilets and the wretch of putrefying chip-fat from the kitchen. You don't like the smell of cigarettes - good for you, you can walk away from it.
|
Now but you see- in a closed public space- I can't walk away from the smell without leaving the closed public space! It's a problem ain't it. I want to be in a show, and the place smells like f**king ciggs. Will I leave because the place smells bad? Some place like a coffee place isn't as bad, with constant air flow. But it still smells. Will I leave? C'mon. I'm sorry to hear about the whole pub thing, but I'd rather smell bad breath than smell ciggs.
But now I'm just getting to the subjective and nothing good and worthwhile comes out of that...
|
|
There be dragons
|
|
Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
|
Posted: May 24 2012 at 07:46 |
frippism wrote:
@Dean- I'm sorry but I can't agree. Unless you're far away from me, it's annoying, I'm sorry it just is. But you're in the U.K., so you can smoke as much as you want.
It's kinda like someone constantly farting in public, only farting doesn't give me cancer.
If you do it at the comfort of your own home, then it's all good. |
The feeling is entirely mutual. Many things that non-smokers do annoy me, many things that non-smokers do offends me, many things that non-smokers do stink to high-heaven, many things that non-smokers do can give me cancer, many things that non-smokers do can result in my premature death. No one has the right to a holier than thou attitude. I'm not advocating that all non-smokers should shut up and live with the smoke from my cigarettes, that would be selfish and stupid, I simply ask that now they've enforced their moral indignation upon me that they back off to a safe distance and leave me the fripp alone.
People stink - it's a biological fact and a result of our body physiology - we are one of the stinkiest critters on the planet - your sweat sinks and grows increasing more repugnant, the fungal growth between your toes pongs like rotting cheese, your breath stinks of your last meal, your belches reek like the dregs from a fermentation vat and your ess-aitch-eye-tea stinks of the meal before that and makes sure all can share in its stinky foulness by farting early warning messages of just how paint-strippingly putrid your next dump will be. And then we try and mask all that natural toxic gas with cheap Walmart body spray yet all we achieve is the fragrance of a urinal toilet block that's been pissed on for a week. I don't like the smell of cigarette smoke and I don't like the smell of an old ashtray, but that's no worse than the lingering after-aroma of the human race. Since smoking has been banned in all pubs and bars I dislike going into them, not because I can no longer smoke, but because the smells they now carry are unpleasant, repellent and offensive - the stench of stale beer mingling with lingering presence of stale sweat, the air laden with eau de beer farts and garlic and onion belches competing with the unmistakable aroma of disinfectant and industrial strength cleaning fluid wafting in from the toilets and the wretch of putrefying chip-fat from the kitchen. You don't like the smell of cigarettes - good for you, you can walk away from it.
|
|
What?
|
|
JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
|
Posted: May 24 2012 at 07:42 |
frippism wrote:
JJLehto wrote:
I think it's just human nature (passion?) but it seems with anything: a political idea, new band/genre of music, new brand of something, new to religion, new to non smoking...the most fervent tend to be the new comers indeed.
Seriously, I don't get the general anti smoking sentiment, especially the harshness of it.
If you live with/have to deal with someone who smokes then yeah, it impacts you and if you want to then try to work with it/get em to quit.
But strangers? Especially when we're outside? Does it really impact your life?
But hey, more human nature...we gotta make sure others do as we want.
Not to derail, I've sene cigars pop up a few times. I think those are nasty, shame that they smell so good. Only had one I got any enjoyment from. Ciggs were generally neutral, if forced I'd rather have that over a cigar!
|
Restaurants, venues, clubs (lol I don't go to clubs). If it's totally in an outside area and the smoke is right beside me then I don't mind. But I'm tired coming back home in the middle of the night from a show smelling like cigarettes- it's disgusting.
And cigars= 10 times worse than cigarettes. They smell like hell. |
Well I don't do clubs either  and I guess I'm just a shady person, I like dark smoke filled bars.  Hmmm odd, as I said I like the smell of cigars, but they taste like sh*t and I can't finish one. Not that I smoke them barely ever anyway.
Edited by JJLehto - May 24 2012 at 07:43
|
|
frippism
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 27 2010
Location: Tel Aviv
Status: Offline
Points: 4160
|
Posted: May 24 2012 at 07:37 |
|
Also, the world is not a perfect place, but shouldn't we strive to improve it, even though perfection will never be achieved. There's a limit to post-modernism.
|
|
There be dragons
|
|
frippism
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 27 2010
Location: Tel Aviv
Status: Offline
Points: 4160
|
Posted: May 24 2012 at 07:33 |
tamijo wrote:
Im not in doubt that you dont like it, that was clear. But the question is, is it my problem, that you got this neurosis, beliving a little cigarette smoke, might be a real danger to your helth. You may be the kind of person, avoiding any kind of risk, not using cemical soap, never driving cars, only eating biodynamic food, using only biodynamic cloths ect. In that case, you are generally paranoid, sad story. You may also be the person, doing everything as most people do, in that case, Your problem is a tobacco neurosis. In any case, its your problem, not mine. We are all gonna die, smoking or no smoking, and we are ganna have a lot more fun, if we allow each other a little space, and some respect. Im fine with smoking outside, but im sick of this "perfect world", constantly trying to force everyone to be the same. |
Why do you think I'm enforcing everybody to be the same? There's a reason why I support something like gay marriage and oppose public smoking. Gay marriage doesn't affect me directly in any way, I'm just allowing more freedom to other people, without getting any actual physical damage.
Smoking doesn't have any benefit to anyone- in any physical way. Cars take from one place to another, cellphones can save lives, and connect people, and bad food is another story altogether. Cigarettes, are just bad- there's nothing real about them that's good, nothing that benefits you. The social pan of smoking is again- another story.
As I've stated before, I don't really think the minimal exposition I have to cigarette is what will kill me. I do say, that public spaces, particularly closed public spaces- the amount of cigarette smoke I have to inhale is disgusting- and when it's too much does hamper my current health (not saying it gives me cancer, just makes me nauseous). It also smells bad and makes me and everyone around me smell like sh*t. Is that fair to me?
Edited by frippism - May 24 2012 at 07:33
|
|
There be dragons
|
|
UMUR
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 3069
|
Posted: May 24 2012 at 07:16 |
|
Fortunately I´ve given up smoking again. It´s been 6 months since my last smoke and thankfully I rarely miss it. I know myself though and I know the lust to smoke will return. I´ll try and be strong this time. I´m astmathic and suffer badly when I smoke.
|
|
|
|
/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
Do you smoke
