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Joined: June 28 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 905
Posted: February 04 2011 at 03:41
I like a lot of what is considered pop music, though I dislike the way most people (ESPECIALLY on this forum) use the term. Once people start calling bands like Public Image Ltd pop the word can pretty much mean goddamn anything.
Not to mention prog fans have used the term "generic pop" to describe everyone from Radiohead to Bjork to Mars Volta to pretty much any artist that isn't directly prog but gets added to this website anyway only to enrage everyone who dismiss them as "generic pop" regardless of what they actually f*cking sound like because prog fans have become that damn deluded.
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
Posted: February 03 2011 at 12:56
rico2010 wrote:
The T wrote:
at the two previous posts...
I still haven't received the thorough musical explanation that I requested... I still can't be explained the magic behind that master of late renaissance/early baroque music, Alice Cooper...
If you found a "marking scheme" for good music, do send me a copy
I still haven't received the thorough musical explanation that I requested... I still can't be explained the magic behind that master of late renaissance/early baroque music, Alice Cooper...
If you found a "marking scheme" for good music, do send me a copy
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
Posted: February 03 2011 at 11:56
at the two previous posts...
I still haven't received the thorough musical explanation that I requested... I still can't be explained the magic behind that master of late renaissance/early baroque music, Alice Cooper...
There are plenty of great pop songs now. "Crazy" by Gnarls Barkley is one that I actually play live.
Pop is about fun, energy, entertainment. Lady Gaga is definitely that. It's a whole package, a look, a sound, a presentation. The Beatles, Madonna, Prince, Backstreet Boys, Evanescence, it's all part of a package. Music is only a piece of it. The audience is not folks like us who have listened to tens of thousands of hours of music already and need something a bit off the beaten path to still feed us.
"Truly Innovative" is a tough one. Most of the artists even on PA aren't "truly innovative."
Pop music is about fun while True music is about art.
It seems some stuff used to get commercial success because the music was genuinely good.
I disagree with this statement.
Big surprise there.
Anyhow, a couple of years back when Coldplay hit their pop heights the mainstream media continually describe them as innovative. Lady GaGa is almost always described as innovative, as is Kanye West. I suppose that whether any of these artists is good is a matter of personal taste, and whether they trully are innovative, or if they're just "different than the usual" I couldn't really say. Fringe popular bands like Muse and Radiohead might fit the bill, but again, level of innovation and quality of goodness are up for debate.
I dont even consider anything related to Lady Gaga(and other pop stars) as music. The only connection between today pop-'music' and true music is that they are both sound.
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
Posted: February 02 2011 at 14:07
overmatik wrote:
The T wrote:
^All I've ever heard from Cooper, from his old classics like school's out to newer like poison, is rather mundane rock, simple, ultra-simple actually, with little ornamentation, little in the way of arrangements. I really, seriously, honestly think Gaga's pop music is much better in its style than Cooper's rock is.
All I have to say after this is that I don't have absolutely anything else to add to this discussion. Let me just get back to the 17th century where I belong...
I knew Alice Cooper was old, but I wasn't aware he was active in the 17th century...
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
Posted: February 02 2011 at 14:01
overmatik wrote:
The T wrote:
^All I've ever heard from Cooper, from his old classics like school's out to newer like poison, is rather mundane rock, simple, ultra-simple actually, with little ornamentation, little in the way of arrangements. I really, seriously, honestly think Gaga's pop music is much better in its style than Cooper's rock is.
All I have to say after this is that I don't have absolutely anything else to add to this discussion. Let me just get back to the 17th century where I belong...
According to your RYM, you would be missing most of your favorite bands in the 17th century.
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
Posted: February 02 2011 at 12:18
overmatik wrote:
The T wrote:
^All I've ever heard from Cooper, from his old classics like school's out to newer like poison, is rather mundane rock, simple, ultra-simple actually, with little ornamentation, little in the way of arrangements. I really, seriously, honestly think Gaga's pop music is much better in its style than Cooper's rock is.
All I have to say after this is that I don't have absolutely anything else to add to this discussion. Let me just get back to the 17th century where I belong...
Ok tell me why Cooper is so musically advanced, but please, in this case you have to use objective values. Talk to me about all the details: harmony, structure, melody invention, instrumentation, please, un-dumb me.
And btw, if you go back to the 17th century you'll find yourself surrounded by music at the start of the glory of poliphony and counterpoint. Say hello to the italians for me! But simple rock n' roll you won't find good friend....
Joined: July 15 2009
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 96
Posted: February 02 2011 at 12:07
The T wrote:
^All I've ever heard from Cooper, from his old classics like school's out to newer like poison, is rather mundane rock, simple, ultra-simple actually, with little ornamentation, little in the way of arrangements. I really, seriously, honestly think Gaga's pop music is much better in its style than Cooper's rock is.
All I have to say after this is that I don't have absolutely anything else to add to this discussion. Let me just get back to the 17th century where I belong...
"Wear the grudge like a crown of negativity. Calculate what we will or will not tolerate. Desperate to control all and everything. Unable to forgive your scarlet letterman."
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
Posted: February 02 2011 at 12:03
And I never wanted to argue about that. All I was baffled about is the fact that Overmatik uses Alice Cooper as his example of great music next to more typical mainstream music and I'm saying "hey, it's not THAT different, and whether it is superior or not, jury, as school, is still out"
Joined: March 21 2008
Location: Tigerstaden
Status: Offline
Points: 34055
Posted: February 02 2011 at 11:59
I am not proposing his inclusion ether, even Elton John could bay some good presuasive people, be fitted in here somewhere ( jammed with KC and GG, recorded an album with Roger Hodgson in 68 before he was Elton, called Argosy, use of harphischord and clavichord classical motives in the early records Mozart esque melodies, mellotrons, electric pianos, unusual chords and melodie twists, concept albums, )
Joined: March 21 2008
Location: Tigerstaden
Status: Offline
Points: 34055
Posted: February 02 2011 at 11:48
it was Frank Zappa who signed Alice Cooper band and hadent Desomd Child and 80s Cooper have existed and for the band alone would actualy be a clear fitt for ether Proto-prog, Eclectic prog or prog related
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
Posted: February 02 2011 at 11:47
aginor wrote:
The T wrote:
^All I've ever heard from Cooper, from his old classics like school's out to newer like poison, is rather mundane rock, simple, ultra-simple actually, with little ornamentation, little in the way of arrangements. I really, seriously, honestly think Gaga's pop music is much better in its style than Cooper's rock is.
the song i have presented to you are PURE progressive rock
Ok I might agree with that but since when pure progressive rock = good music??
I'm not saying is bad, but the epitome of greatness it is not. And, specially, the epitome of non-pop it is not.
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
Posted: February 02 2011 at 11:43
Ok that's a little better but I still don't see nothing but a longer rock song with some decent ideas here and there and (gosh) even some melodies taken from other places.... Nothing that great, not at least in the level that would supposedly make Alice Cooper such a music god as to leave Gaga's good pop in the dust...
Joined: March 21 2008
Location: Tigerstaden
Status: Offline
Points: 34055
Posted: February 02 2011 at 11:43
the T I only want you to take one listen to Halo of Flies (if you got the time ), and just get one impression of what the band Alice Cooper was all about, Alice Cooper was from 68 to 74 a banc and Alice Cooper was their band name, which their singer Vincent Furnier took as his own, in 75.
Joined: March 21 2008
Location: Tigerstaden
Status: Offline
Points: 34055
Posted: February 02 2011 at 11:40
The T wrote:
^All I've ever heard from Cooper, from his old classics like school's out to newer like poison, is rather mundane rock, simple, ultra-simple actually, with little ornamentation, little in the way of arrangements. I really, seriously, honestly think Gaga's pop music is much better in its style than Cooper's rock is.
the song i have presented to you are PURE progressive rock
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Is Pop Music Innovative Or Good Anymore?
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rico2010 wrote:
at the two previous posts... 
I still can't be explained the magic behind that master of late renaissance/early baroque music, Alice Cooper... 
)