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Topic ClosedThe Voice Of Gabriel or Collins in Genesis Songs

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Icarium View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2010 at 10:59
well they are definitly not Freddy Mercury
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2010 at 10:34
Both are rather nasal and annoying for long periods, Gabriel less so.
 
In fact I would go as far as to say that they are my least favourite vocalists from "all the greats" in prog.....


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2010 at 09:01
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

I believe that the only Gabriel song that Collins sung better than Peter was I know what I Like.

The rest...Gabriel by light years.


Edited by DisgruntledPorcupine - December 13 2010 at 09:01
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2010 at 08:43
Gabriel has a menace in his voice that Collins cannot match. Compare and contrast the "me, I'm just a lawnmower" bit in the original and live versions. Also, Collins adds some annoying bits such as "Stickleback, back back" in Carpet Crawlers (which I recently saw a Genesis tribute band do as well). Collins is a great singer but he lacks Gabriel's character.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2010 at 08:31
Singing can be a million things, how well do you produce pure tones, how well do you do complex melodies, can you do a deep dragonvoice, but what matters most is how do you communicate with your audience.
 
Neither Phil Collins or Peter Gabriel can produce pure tones like Art Garfunkel. Collins is probably a little better, and from live tapes was much less likely to actually sing out of tune. But neither can do vocal acrobatics very well.
 
But Gabriel was one of the best vocalists ever in the range of dramatic expression and range of emotional communication.
 
I've been watching video of Collins doing Supper's Ready and Musical Box and Carpet Crawlers and it's just weak. There's just not enough pathos in his voice or his soul to pull that stuff off.
 
One other important point, however, is that going back and watching the Gabriel-era video, you realize how much having Collins' second voice really was an integral part of the classic sound.
 
And finally, gotta have the flute. and the makeup. and costumes.
 
Collins plays a mean trapset though. He was a beast on the skins. 
You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 12 2010 at 08:59
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Actually, I agree with CCVP that neither are great singers. They just do that drama-singing thing well, which is generally liked in prog circles.  But I prefer Gabriel on the Gabriel-Genesis albums because he conveyed drama better, while Collins, as Dean said, can get a bit goofy.


Wow, somebody actually agreed! That's unheard of.LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 12 2010 at 06:18
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

The lower register resonance in Gabriel's voice on Carpet Crawlers is far better than Collins and carries a warmth that Collins cannot muster, however Collins's backing harmonies on the original are superb. The song was written for two voices and studio multi-tracking - it just doesn't work for me as a single voice song the way Collins sings it.
 
I really do not like the lack of timbre in Collins singing on the opening verse of the Seconds Out version of Carpet Crawlers, but will admit his higher register voice is more soothing than Gabe's and that does work slightly better. The problem for me is that he rushes the words at the end of each verse so he can transition into the chorus-voice and then does it again at the beginning of the next verse in transition out of the chorus, for example "The porcelain manikin with shattered skin fears attack" is sung by Gabriel as three distinct phrases that fit the music, but with Collins it is a crushed forced-fit on the live version with no pause between "manikin" and "with" and between "skin" and "fears". I find it "odd" that a drummer should bugger up the rhythm of the vocal so badly at that point - it really irritates me to listen to it.
 
To get a better understanding of what I mean you need to compare the Seconds Out version not with the studio version but with the Gabriel-era live version from the Archive Box Set where Collins provides the second (backing) vocals - that is the definitive live version and knocks the Collins version right out of the ball-park.
 
On Seconds Out Collins is doing a Gabriel impression, even on the Trick of the Tail and Wind & Wuthering tracks, and doesn't use the bluesy-soul voice he would use on later albums. He is also singing in English rather than American (phrasing, pronunciation and diction) - another Gabriel trait (also shared by Kate Bush) that he later dropped.
 
In general, when Collins sings Gabriel songs that are within his vocal range he is a good singer, but he doesn't have the depth or versatility of Gabriel when he goes "into character" and lacks that [Roger] Chapmanesque bark in the back of his throat (that Hammill, and to some extent Fish and Ian Anderson, also have) - when Collins does character voices it just sounds mockney to me.

Absolutely agree. Clap
I'd like to add that Peter Gabriel sings the lines with more compassion and meaning, e.g. the line
"Through the door a harvest feast is lit by candlelight" the "through" is a half tone lower than "the door" and "lit" is the highest note in the line, which makes perfectly sense, whereas Phil Collins sings the whole song, as if it does not mean anything at all to him (and probably it does not).
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 12 2010 at 00:46
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

I believe that the only Gabriel song that Collins sung better than Peter was I know what I Like.

The rest...Gabriel by light years.

Iván


What this wise man said.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2010 at 22:46
Actually, I agree with CCVP that neither are great singers. They just do that drama-singing thing well, which is generally liked in prog circles.  But I prefer Gabriel on the Gabriel-Genesis albums because he conveyed drama better, while Collins, as Dean said, can get a bit goofy.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2010 at 20:54
Originally posted by Lark the Starless Lark the Starless wrote:

Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

I don't like most of Genesis' output, but I think Collis was a better singer. That said, I don't think they were actually good singers. They fit very well in the band's sound and both sound very alike. I really don't understand why people say Gabriel was better. His voice was weak, anemic and slightly out of tune in most songs prior to Lamb, wile Collins' voice had a limited range and wasn't as resonant.


 
Thumbs DownWinkLOL


meh, haters hate the haters that hate Genesis' singers. Everything went according to plan. LOL
Wink


Edited by CCVP - December 11 2010 at 20:55
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2010 at 20:50
Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

I don't like most of Genesis' output, but I think Collis was a better singer. That said, I don't think they were actually good singers. They fit very well in the band's sound and both sound very alike. I really don't understand why people say Gabriel was better. His voice was weak, anemic and slightly out of tune in most songs prior to Lamb, wile Collins' voice had a limited range and wasn't as resonant.


 
Thumbs DownWinkLOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2010 at 20:48
I don't like most of Genesis' output, but I think Collis was a better singer. That said, I don't think they were actually good singers. They fit very well in the band's sound and both sound very alike. I really don't understand why people say Gabriel was better. His voice was weak, anemic and slightly out of tune in most songs prior to Lamb, wile Collins' voice had a limited range and wasn't as resonant.




Edited by CCVP - December 11 2010 at 20:49
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2010 at 20:48
Originally posted by Chris S Chris S wrote:

Originally posted by Lark the Starless Lark the Starless wrote:

Both are awesome. Regardless of what they sing.
 
I'll probably always side with PG though. PC is the man too, though.
says it in a nutshell really!
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2010 at 20:37
Originally posted by Lark the Starless Lark the Starless wrote:

Both are awesome. Regardless of what they sing.
 
I'll probably always side with PG though. PC is the man too, though.
says it in a nutshell really!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2010 at 18:47
Both are awesome. Regardless of what they sing.
 
I'll probably always side with PG though. PC is the man too, though.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2010 at 17:32
Originally posted by b4usleep b4usleep wrote:

PC is not listenable for me


Hope Santa will not bring you the latest Phil Collins effort Going Back. Musically decent record ruined by maneric nasal voice. Compared to Gabriel ... huhhuh ;)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2010 at 14:08
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

The problem for me is that he rushes the words at the end of each verse so he can transition into the chorus-voice and then does it again at the beginning of the next verse in transition out of the chorus, for example "The porcelain manikin with shattered skin fears attack" is sung by Gabriel as three distinct phrases that fit the music, but with Collins it is a crushed forced-fit on the live version with no pause between "manikin" and "with" and between "skin" and "fears". I find it "odd" that a drummer should bugger up the rhythm of the vocal so badly at that point - it really irritates me to listen to it.
 
Very true.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2010 at 14:03
They are both excellent, distinctive vocalists.  To my ears Phil's voice has a thinner, crisper quality to it; where Peter's has a warmer, more rounded tone - which I think is why they sounded so great together.  I don't particularily care for Phil singing Peter era material, but that's only because I'd rather hear them as originally conceived.  Both perfect for their times.
Everyone knows rock attained perfection in 1974, it's a scientific fact.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2010 at 13:14
No preference. They're both fantastic. I could listen to either singing the Gabriel era songs all day. Fantastic but different.

Gabriel once said to Phil "you sing the songs better than I do, but not like I do"

True, but at the same time they can sound very similar..

Because Phil sung backing vocalsf or so long, they are both a big part of the Genesis sound.
Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2010 at 12:44
PC is not listenable for me
Really don't mind if you sit this one out.
My words but a whisper, your deafness a shout.
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