Progressive rock music & Hip Hop?

40footwolf wrote: octopus-4 wrote: 40footwolf wrote: ...Be real, you haven't bought a rap album since 1989, have you? Only one in my whole life and by mistake (Outkast) That was to Walter, actually, but it raises another point: If you just admitted that you don't know what you're talking about, than why are you talking about it?

40footwolf wrote: First of all, who is "they"? Are you presuming that all hip hop artists fall under a nebulous "they" banner? Because you're mistaken-many write their own music, many are even trained in musical theory.  Even if we were working under the (incorrect) assumption that all hip hop, everywhere, forever, is made up entirely of samples, that would still be "writing music". Let's check out the dictionary definition of music: 1.an art of sound in time that expresses ideas and emotions in significant forms through the elements of rhythm, melody, harmony, and color. 2. the tones or sounds employed, occurring in single line (melody) or multiple lines (harmony), and sounded or to be sounded by one or more voices or instruments, or both. So even when you use samples, you're arranging them in a way that's musical. If that wasn't the case, ELP's liberal borrowing of passages from classical composers would also be this dreaded non-musical entity you seem to fear so much.

First up, my knowledge of Hip Hop only stretches to Ice T, Eminem, De La Soul, Public Enemy and erm...that band who did the Aerosmith cover 'Walk This Way' ? (Although I do like much of the foregoing's output)

The comparison between digital sampling and quoting from other composers work has been made many times before e.g. I actually read an interview with a dance music boffin who claimed that Keith Richard sampled Chuck Berry's music 'manually' using his ears and fingers circa 1963

Clearly this is facile nonsense as despite the many satisfying aesthetic results achieved by manipulation and treatment of the original analogue sources, said practitioners of this art are but ARRANGERS n'est pas ?

1989 was the last great year in the history of music, so is it any wonder that the apogee of hip-hop is from 1989?

40footwolf wrote: ...Be real, you haven't bought a rap album since 1989, have you?

40footwolf wrote: First of all, who is "they"? Are you presuming that all hip hop artists fall under a nebulous "they" banner? Because you're mistaken-many write their own music, many are even trained in musical theory.  Even if we were working under the (incorrect) assumption that all hip hop, everywhere, forever, is made up entirely of samples, that would still be "writing music". Let's check out the dictionary definition of music: 1.an art of sound in time that expresses ideas and emotions in significant forms through the elements of rhythm, melody, harmony, and color. 2. the tones or sounds employed, occurring in single line (melody) or multiple lines (harmony), and sounded or to be sounded by one or more voices or instruments, or both. So even when you use samples, you're arranging them in a way that's musical. If that wasn't the case, ELP's liberal borrowing of passages from classical composers would also be this dreaded non-musical entity you seem to fear so much.

They're not on the same level in that they aren't comparable, which was my point to begin with, not because one is necessarily inferior to the other. Musically they don't have the same goals and aren't created in the same way. 

First of all, who is "they"? Are you presuming that all hip hop artists fall under a nebulous "they" banner? Because you're mistaken-many write their own music, many are even trained in musical theory. 

I feel like having a prog sample in a hip hop song has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the hip hop song. It'll be good for any number of reasons-flow, lyrical agility, good beats-but just because it has a prog sample doesn't make it good, or particularly intelligent, even, any more than if it samples metal or TV shows. I don't understand where that notion came from. 

No not in PA

^ Porque no Ivan!!?? I mean don't you wannna hear Peter Gabriel cover one of 50 Cent songs?