What's wrong with ELP?

rogerthat wrote: My goalposts aren't shifting, I have said this before when the same topic came up.  Yes, indeed, I would rate an album with one or more masterpiece tracks as masterpiece because that's my way of saying people should listen to the album for the masterpieces.  What would I do with an album full of decent songs but all lacking in lustre?

rogerthat wrote: ExittheLemming wrote: Although I do broadly agree with this (after all I'm an ELP fanboy crusty) your post does highlight one of the anomalies re interpretation of the ratings system for album reviews. Of the entire ELP discography, I have rated only Brain Salad Surgery as 5 stars because every single track on that critter IMO is quite brilliant. Trilogy, Pictures, Tarkus and to a lesser extent, the debut are but a small kick in the backside off 5 stars but do contain flaws that force me to mark lower. How many times have you read a fawning review of say Crimson, Yes, Tull or Genesis where the reviewer states something along the lines of: This track is a bit poppy/boring/silly/simple for me but you cant deny it, the remainder is a masterpiece of progressive rock music *****  ? There was even one deluded piece of hirsute plankton who rated 2112 by Rush as 5 stars and admitted he thought all of side two of the album sucked ?! (Has he considered suing his parents for malpractice?) So, are we forced to conclude that all ELP fans try to be honest and as objective as possible with regards their fave band or that the remainder are a disingenuous rabble of barely literate apologists for patchy masterpieces ? I agree with the poster above you that if a sidelong epic is a masterpiece, it should seal the five star rating for the album.  Based on this, I would give Tarkus five stars but not so to say BSS, because I don't think KE9 is a masterpiece though it is a great track, yes.  The way I see it, you listen to say Foxtrot because it has Supper's Ready and whether you like Timetable or not should be inconsequential to the rating.  Yes, there is a problem if people apply this thinking to say Genesis albums but not to ELP albums (though why people should do so beats me ).

So your goalposts appear to be not just shifting but actually on wheels then ? i.e. if 50% of an album is brilliant and the rest is mediocre you would presumably rate this 5 stars. Are you therefore basing your review score on the longest track ? What about prog bands who have albums with 10 tracks roughly  the same length and 5 of them suck - does this get 5 stars also ? Wake up to yourself son.

Gerinski wrote: O666 wrote: Keith is wild player and he plays like god. Carl is powerful and he has pretty good technic and Greg balanced keith wild and his voice had commercial potential ( like collins). This combination can make magneficence masterpiece but it never happened. Every prog legends have 1 or more masterpiece but ELP dont have ONE 5 STAR ALBUM. One of friends told " they have many 5 star songs". I agree with that but they dont have 5 star album. Sorry but I totally disagree. The masterpieces of ELP did happen. Actually quite a few of them, and I don't mean just masterpiece songs but masterpiece albums. A soccer team with 1 or 2 weaker players out of the 11 can still be a superteam if the other 9 or 10 are among the best in the world. Many masterpiece albums by other bands have also their weaker moments and yet they still deserve being called masterpieces. I repeat, to me ELP debut, Pictures, Tarkus, Trilogy, BSS and Welcome Back all qualify as 5-star masterpieces. Obviously it's a matter of taste, but I feel like many people have a strange negative bias against ELP compared to other great prog bands.

Although I do broadly agree with this (after all I'm an ELP fanboy crusty) your post does highlight one of the anomalies re interpretation of the ratings system for album reviews. Of the entire ELP discography, I have rated only Brain Salad Surgery as 5 stars because every single track on that critter IMO is quite brilliant. Trilogy, Pictures, Tarkus and to a lesser extent, the debut are but a small kick in the backside off 5 stars but do contain flaws that force me to mark lower. How many times have you read a fawning review of say Crimson, Yes, Tull or Genesis where the reviewer states something along the lines of:

This track is a bit poppy/boring/silly/simple for me but you cant deny it, the remainder is a masterpiece of progressive rock music *****  ?

There was even one deluded piece of hirsute plankton who rated 2112 by Rush as 5 stars and admitted he thought all of side two of the album sucked ?! (Has he considered suing his parents for malpractice?)

So, are we forced to conclude that all ELP fans try to be honest and as objective as possible with regards their fave band or that the remainder are a disingenuous rabble of barely literate apologists for patchy masterpieces ?


Edited by ExittheLemming - March 20 2010 at 08:57

O666 wrote: Keith is wild player and he plays like god. Carl is powerful and he has pretty good technic and Greg balanced keith wild and his voice had commercial potential ( like collins). This combination can make magneficence masterpiece but it never happened. Every prog legends have 1 or more masterpiece but ELP dont have ONE 5 STAR ALBUM. One of friends told " they have many 5 star songs". I agree with that but they dont have 5 star album.

Sorry but I totally disagree. The masterpieces of ELP did happen. Actually quite a few of them, and I don't mean just masterpiece songs but masterpiece albums. A soccer team with 1 or 2 weaker players out of the 11 can still be a superteam if the other 9 or 10 are among the best in the world. Many masterpiece albums by other bands have also their weaker moments and yet they still deserve being called masterpieces.

  You figured that out only now. Very good! On the Victory B.S.S reissure of the 1990s, there are pictures of ELP looking over H.R. Geiger's artwork for the album.

ELP is one of prog-gods for all time. Keith is unique and his touch is specific. TARKUS is my first meet with ELP and after that i try hard to find another albums. BSS is next album and i search harder. after this 2 album i found ELP ( first album) and TRILOGY togather. In this period i think ELP is the best band i ever know. BUT from next album i found ( Love beach) everything changed. they go bad step by step and i disappointed day after day. WHY? Keith is wild player and he plays like god. Carl is powerful and he has pretty good technic and Greg balanced keith wild and his voice had commercial potential ( like collins). This combination can make magneficence masterpiece but it never happened. Every prog legends have 1 or more masterpiece but ELP dont have ONE 5 STAR ALBUM. One of friends told " they have many 5 star songs". I agree with that but they dont have 5 star album.

Ok. the BSS album cover does look like  H.R.  And have seen the "Fresh Fruit" Poster when it came out

Dellinger wrote: Oh, and what's all that hatred towards "Are you ready, Eddie", I mean, it's certainly not a stellar track from this band, but as a matter of fact I even like it. Benny the Bouncer and other such tracks I cerainly don't like, but this one is rather fun. Come on, who would think about a "Rock 'n Roll" song done without an electric Guitar at all.

Recorded as a tribute to their engineer Eddy Offord after a drunken night out.It is unique that it is the only ELP track with Emerson and Palmer doing backing vocals. Can't imagine why there were'nt more

halabalushindigus wrote: In concert, it was like a one-man show. Like now that Wakeman's gone, I'm the bad ass prog player of keyboard-dome. Then he would let Carl do his thing. But Lake to me was the awesome player. His bass pedals. Emerson kinda played like wanted to just be overboard. He didn't wear the cape(like Wake) He didn't really dress up(like little rich)but when he played two keyboards at once, with, of course, the second keyboard 180 degrees  to the side, I'm thinking wow but WHY? So after a few minutes, It would be the same thing then Emerson would strech his analog sucker with some kind of envelope and trip out. He was fantastic , raw. It seemed to me that after the years gone by.....Keith does't appear to have, let say. become more incredible. But that two-handed thing,,,,you got to give it to him. His performance perks are in order

Well, Wakeman does that thing about playing two keyboards at the same time (I don't think the did the 180 degrees thing, though), and actually is known for having as many keyboards at his reach as he could think of during the concerts. The cape thing began because (before Wakeman started using them, during a Yes show) someone remarked to him that he looked really weird stretching and contorting to reach the different keyboards he intended to use during the different parts of the show; so he decided to use the cape as a distraction (and according to him it worked).

halabalushindigus wrote: what thehell is up with that cover picture on "Brain Salad Surgery"?. That alone makes me want to stay away as faaaaarrrrrrr away as possible from whatever It is.   never got a full listening of this 'plate' of 'salad'. And I've heard 'round these parts that is ,perhaps, their best. But that album cover

The cover is a picture of H R Giger's then girlfriend. . There is supposed to be (and there is on some covers) a white light phallic depiction. ELP were disposed to 'stand up for the penis' (against the censorship) feeling a certain masculine obligation toward defending this aspect of symbolism. The title Brain Salad Surgery is a an. um, oral metaphor for female to male oral sexual gratification.

Perhaps oddly I've never heard anyone use for the term this particular activity but then I might move in the socially incorrect circles. Of course being a prog rock fan I don't have social circles but there we go...

The girlfriend committed suicide a few years after.

Giger's work is not exactly William Morris (wallpaper) and if you want something is truly foul and might make you more kindly disposed to BSS art then check out the poster for the Dead Kennedy's Fresh Fruit and Rotting Vegetables album. I seriously doubt in this ultra PC age of mind control (Karn Evil 9 come true) that this art will be available. But bear it in mind.

Incidentally H R Giger was the guy that did the Aliens in the Aliens movies.

BSS is still a great album.