Capital Punishment: For or Against?

Epignosis wrote: Henry Plainview wrote: But Rob there's a difference between how easy it is to abuse something. There is only one President, but there are many wardens who could potentially get away with something if we start leaving loopholes. There's a reason we don't do forced labor anymore, but we still have a President. Epignosis wrote: A Person wrote: I am against capital punishment, although a life sentence is as good as death anyway. Unless you are the one paying for it. Executing somebody costs more than life... Says whom? I could point out a dozen things wrong with that statement.  I'll stick with this: Executing somebody could cost more than a life sentence, if say the convicted felon was 98 years old.  You actually believe the cost of an execution exceeds the cost of housing and feeding someone who gets life in prison at age 21? Also, people who quote how much it costs to execute people for the sake of creating shock value are adding in imprisonment costs, investigations, and perhaps most expensively, the cost of appeals not the cost of an execution itself. Again Henry- you are arguing against the procedure, not against the idea.

He wasnt referring to the cost of the actual execution itself I suspect, but to the legal costs of executing someone.  People on death row, especially leading up to their death, will file a ridiculous amount of legal actions just to try to delay the execution and very often it works.  The legal system has to pay very close attention to all of these appeals because they certainly dont want to execute someone who shouldnt be, and we waste a lot of legal resources dealing with it.  I believe this is the cost he war referring to

I'll come back to this thread and read the posts some other time then respond to posts I agree or disagree with directly.
If I were to generalize my political standing I'd consider myself somewhere between a liberal and a libertarian. That said, I am all for the death penalty. I also think it should be handed out far more often than it is. One first degree murder is easily enough of a crime to warrant a death sentence. Then other violent crimes can add up to a death sentence.

rushfan4 wrote: a daily session on the Iron Maiden

you've got millions and millions of prisoners who are never going to be released for their heinous crimes against society, or they'll be released and reoffend. I think it can't be used unless it's an extreme situation - but there are a lot of those.


I'm for it, when it's used without abuse.

valravennz wrote: No - I think Capital Punishment tends to make martyrs of criminals and/or in many cases the condemed die an easy death compared to their victims if murder was the crime. I think the old adage of "Lock 'em up and throw away the key" is more appropriate ie: Life should be life with no parole. The punishment would then be translated into a life long suffering of the consequences of criminal actions. Death does not deem to be an appropriate punishment. A Life behind bars without freedom is.

This.

The death penalty in the US does not seem to be an actual penalty anymore. The executioners are actually making sure the convict suffers as little as possible! In that way they're gentler than some doctors. I'm willing to bet the average law-abiding citizen dies a far more torturous death in hospital. Gone are the days when people would turn pale at the bare mention of any one of the countless 'creative' methods of execution. And rightly so. I don't want them back.

Yes, life imprisonment should mean imprisonment for life. Though again, if a prison is just a mandatory hotel, that's no punishment either.

Yes Rob, I was counting appeals, but I was under the impression that people on death row appeal more than lifers, which is why it costs more. I was just pointing out that executing people to save money (which I think is a terrible reason) is a false reason because we're always going to have appeals. There's plenty of evidence to suggest that this is true.

Edited by Henry Plainview - November 27 2009 at 12:36

npjnpj wrote: Erm... Capital Punishment: For or Against. Would 'yes' mean: Yes, I'm for it, or yes, I'm against it?

Attention to detail my friend. I think Slarti has already explained.

Now for my views on the subject:

- For one thing - and this is very important - I do believe people can change. I have changed myself over the years through chemical turbulences in my body, my father has changed a hell of a lot for his family and I can name a good few people (junkies included) that have completely turned their lives around. So I think, even if someone has such a strong personality disorder that they are capable of killing another human, that even the strongest willed serial killers can change. If people have beaten addiction, cancer and mental illness, then they can beat the urge to kill.

- There is also the criminal mind to consider. A very delicate subject, and it is often considered taboo to justify their killings, but let's look at Jeffrey Dahmer for a minute. If anyone has read up about him (I have, criminal psychology has always been something I'm interested in), you will know he had urges to have sex with dead teenage boys since he was very young. Not exactly outright, but a few strange incidents have led people to believe that, and he himself has stated it's been a childhood thing. He faught those urges until his first killing at the age of 18. Does this indicate that he was trying to be normal? Studies have hypothesised that this particularly desperate resistance against his urges drove him mad, and the killing was in fact a product of his madness.

Ultimately, the point is that it is possible that serial killers such as Dahmer were simply born with a bad hand, and just the same as being straight is imbedded into our hormones and being gay likewise, serial killers' urges are in fact uncontrollable in the sense that we are all sexually attracted to other human beings. And for that reason I wouldn't comfortable killing someone like Jeffrey Dahmer, simply because his actions may be psychologically justifiable.

- Now I know in theory capital punishment will never make a mistake and the people that "deserve" it will always be treated appropriately and innocent people let to live on their own terms. However, life cannot be analysed by theories. Social and law related issues can be written down in a scientific and definite way, however the practicallities of it are a completely different kettle of fish. Governments will always make mistakes because no matter how powerful they are, they are governed by human beings, and we have reputation for making mistakes.

- Also, it is not a proven deterrent in today's society. There are still terrorists, serial killers, rapists and child molesterers walking the street today, and there is absolutely nothing stopping them. In fact, these people's morals are so clouded over, I doubt they can even see the consequences, let alone be deterred by them. Even in countries that do operate a capital punishment scheme.

- Now for a personal view. If, god forbid it, someone came in cold blood and burnt my house down, my car, raped my mother, tortured my father, killed them both and slaughtered my dog, leaving me with burns for the rest of my life and nowhere to go and my loved ones no more, I think the death penalty would be going easy on them. I would like to see them chastised and tortured for the rest of their life. Call me sick, but that is the only real amount of pain that would be nearly justice for what I would suffer. I know this juxtaposes a couple of my points, but it doesn't juztapose my outright view at all.

So all in all, I am against capital punishment.

I'm for it. However, only for the most serious crimes. The incident has to be investigated very carefully, and if the police have enough proofs, a dangerous criminal really should have his/her life taken away. Some may say, it has no retentiveness. I say, it does have. Look at the Middle Age.

Henry Plainview wrote: But Rob there's a difference between how easy it is to abuse something. There is only one President, but there are many wardens who could potentially get away with something if we start leaving loopholes. There's a reason we don't do forced labor anymore, but we still have a President. Epignosis wrote: A Person wrote: I am against capital punishment, although a life sentence is as good as death anyway. Unless you are the one paying for it. Executing somebody costs more than life...

Says whom?

I could point out a dozen things wrong with that statement.  I'll stick with this:

Executing somebody could cost more than a life sentence, if say the convicted felon was 98 years old.  You actually believe the cost of an execution exceeds the cost of housing and feeding someone who gets life in prison at age 21?

Also, people who quote how much it costs to execute people for the sake of creating shock value are adding in imprisonment costs, investigations, and perhaps most expensively, the cost of appeals not the cost of an execution itself.

Again Henry- you are arguing against the procedure, not against the idea.

Erm... Capital Punishment: For or Against. Would 'yes' mean: Yes, I'm for it, or yes, I'm against it?