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mystic fred ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 13 2006 Location: Londinium Status: Offline Points: 4252 |
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vinyl is becoming easier to get, there are many companies re-issuing albums but unfortunately the discerning audiophile needs deep pockets
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Sacred 22 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: March 24 2006 Status: Offline Points: 1509 |
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^^^^
If I play a MP3 track and the same track in lossless I can certainly hear the difference in both detail and dynamics but to be honest you do need a system that resolves well in order to notice the difference from my experience.
Even my so called non audiophile friends can hear the difference, but on most computer based systems I dare say you would be hard pressed to notice much of a difference.
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Petrovsk Mizinski ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: December 24 2007 Location: Ukraine Status: Offline Points: 25210 |
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The difference between 192kbps MP3 and loseless audio is absolutely
squat for me, and if there is any difference, it's not worth the extra
hard disk space.
I'm not really an insanely audiophile-ish person, I honestly don't really own an expensive audio systems. My main thing is about production really. I cannot listen stuff (or just not as often) that has really poor production. Examples, such as metal albums with guitar tones that are a horrible, grating mid scooped grind (... And Justice For All, Cowboys from Hell) tend to make it a difficult listen for me. I'll probably end up selling me copy of AJFA purely for that reason alone. It's just so much easier to sit through an album with bigger and warmed guitar tones (like Colors by Between the Buried and Me with it's big low mid chunk and pretty much all of Pelican's stuff for example) for me personally because you're not being blasted with excesses of low end and high end. Once I get a more permanent job however, I will upgrade my studio monitors to something more high end so I can take advantage of the well produced albums in my library. |
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Sacred 22 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: March 24 2006 Status: Offline Points: 1509 |
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I have what could be considered a high end system. (Sim Audio Moon W3 power amp, Linn Kairn pre-amp, Newform Research R-645 modded speakers with outboard crossovers, Kimber wire through out. I also use a Benchmark Media Dac 1 with USB connected to a Rotel RCD 990 as a transport.
I have my complete collection stored on hard drive in so called lossless format and I must admit that the Benchmark outboard DAC is light years ahead of any on board computer DAC/soundcard I have ever heard. The USB stream going straight to the outboard DAC is the trick to getting decent sound from your computer. It's very good and the Benchmark manages the problem of jitter perfectly.
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friso ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: October 24 2007 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 2506 |
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I'm audiophile enough to refuse every cd/mp3 if I can get (in theory, some vinyl is hard to get) a vinyl copy of the record.
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jch ![]() Forum Newbie ![]() ![]() Joined: January 11 2008 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 10 |
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Hi Guys Audiophile? I don’t know but I’m a person who enjoys a really good quality recording. Unfortunately they are not too many good recording (progressive/heavy metal) I mean to compare to some HD recording (mastering) like XRCD,K2 ,SACD and so on….Nevertheless it is all about music that is what I have missed the most. After some time I did realize that I’m listening only good recording CD’s LP’s but not necessarily good music or music that I like. ETC sounds vs Music. Now my system is nearly finish and I do hope to turn things around that is .”Enjoy the music”
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Slartibartfast ![]() Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29630 |
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Exercising your futility of course. ![]() |
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Mr ProgFreak ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: November 08 2008 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 5195 |
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^ you should be able to identify 128kbit MP3 even on a half-way decent system. As for whether you should use 192, 256 or 320kbits ... who cares? If you already have most of your collection at 192kbit, why go through the trouble of re-ripping it all again.
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A Person ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: November 10 2008 Location: __ Status: Offline Points: 65760 |
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I have tried to tell the difference between a cd, a 320 kbps mp3, and a 256 kbps mp3. At a reasonable listening level I noticed no difference between any of them. I have even been thinking about reripping my cds to 192 kbps. I have everything from 128 to 356 on my mp3 player, and I never notice which is which. The only time I notice bad quality sound is when the recording itself is bad quality. |
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Rottenhat ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: February 14 2006 Location: Finland Status: Offline Points: 436 |
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[QUOTE=Dominic]So, considering that we're on the subject of audiophilia, my longtime headphones have finally betrayed me; anyone have some phones they're especially proud of or feel like making a special recommendation?
Sennheiser 650. Trust me. :) Edited by Rottenhat - August 06 2009 at 13:30 |
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Language is a virus from outer space.
-William S. Burroughs |
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Dominic ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: January 02 2008 Location: Liberation Land Status: Offline Points: 651 |
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So, considering that we're on the subject of audiophilia, my longtime headphones have finally betrayed me; anyone have some phones they're especially proud of or feel like making a special recommendation?
Just got around to checking this out, super nice tunes; thanks ![]() |
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Mr ProgFreak ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: November 08 2008 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 5195 |
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I purchased Wavering Radiant both on vinyl (excellent gatefold cover!) and as MP3 from eMusic.com:
http://www.emusic.com/album/Isis-Wavering-Radiant-MP3-Download/11412845.html Maybe I'll get around to conducting a little experiment tomorrow: First I'll listen to the album on vinyl on my hi-fi, then I'll listen to the mp3s on my computer. I'll let you know if I hear a difference! |
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Dominic ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: January 02 2008 Location: Liberation Land Status: Offline Points: 651 |
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I don't know much about the actual tech details between Mp3 and Wav files, but i do notice that ambient sounds feel like they have a slight bit more range, and are more prominent and pristine when comparing a CD vs MP3 of the same music. Of course, if you were listening to some pop song you probably could hardly notice the difference, but listening to music like Isis or GYBE, the difference feels quite obvious to me.
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Mr ProgFreak ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: November 08 2008 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 5195 |
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^ I really am. Just finished listening to this fine album on my computer:
http://www.emusic.com/album/Kotebel-Ouroboros-MP3-Download/11447196.html Heavily recommended to ... anyone really, I cannot imagine any Prog fan not liking it. And it surely put my Logitech speakers to the limit. ![]() |
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Dean ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
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^ If you are happy, be happy.
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What?
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Mr ProgFreak ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: November 08 2008 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 5195 |
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I have an ASUS P5N-E SLI motherboard. When I first got this new computer I also used my Creative X-Fi soundcard, but I soon got rid of it because of driver problems (I use Vista 64bit).
Ever since I've been using the onboard Realtek hi-def sound card ... and I'm very happy with it. There is absolutely no audible interference from any component of the computer ... IMO it is simply an esoteric belief of many audiophiles that they have to protected their equipment from each other all the time ... every gadget needs its own power supply, the power supply needs power filters, the speaker cables need active shielding etc.. Come on people ... trust your ears! |
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Dean ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
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A modern sigma-delta DAC semiconductor costs around $0.10 to make and wipes the floor with the DACs from 30 years ago, but it is the associated circuitry around it that elevates it from adequate to hi-fi and then finally to audiophile. With all the best intentions in the world, a PC motherboard, chassis, power-supply and cooling system is not designed to be an hi-fi environment. A DAC on a motherboard not can be hi-fi and a high-quality soundcard may have impressive specifications, and coupled to some good quality speakers may sound very good, but it will never be audiophile since it is impossible to isolate the digital systems from the audio path - even on the soundcard you cannot get away from the PCI bus and all the associated rf radiation that emanates from the edges of the digital signals.
/edit - added the word "not" ![]() Edited by Dean - July 04 2009 at 11:10 |
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Mr ProgFreak ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: November 08 2008 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 5195 |
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^ No doubt, some people will invest a lot of money into such esoteric devices.I never would. Today even your average low cost computer mainboard contains high quality DAC circuitry. Unacceptable by most audiophiles, I know. But again I trust my ears.
![]() Think about it: DAC circuits have been around for 30 years. Today computers are much faster, and more importantly: Manufacturing processes have been optimized. *Maybe* in the late 80s/early 90s it would have made sense to buy a $4000 CD player, but today? Come on. |
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Dean ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
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Compared to an analogue recording there is missing information in all digital data, including pure WAV files and lossless compression methods. Compared to a live concert hall performance there is missing information in an analogue recording. Neither analogue nor digital is capable of reproducing the whole frequency spectrum or full dynamic range of a live situation. (even if that "live" situation is a recording studio).
The goal of Audiophile is two fold - a) to minimise the effects of those losses, and (more importantly) b) not to add any more extraneous information into the system.
A case in point (as mentioned by Oliver Stoned some time back) is the iPod - it is not an audiophile system, while the Wolfson audio DAC is at medium audiophile standard, the analogue circuitry between the DAC and the headphone socket is not. Audiophiles can have their iPods modified to bypass that analogue circtuitry, (http://www.redwineaudio.com/iMod.html), but they still will prefer to play lossless over mp3.
From a purity perspective bad mp3's remove information and add unwanted artifacts - higher bit-rate mp3s combined with higher sampling rates minimise both but at a price (file size). It is becoming evident that 256Kbps mp3 is indistinguishable from Red Book standard CD files for most people but anyone who is "unhappy" with CDs is not going to be "happy" with mp3 either.
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Mr ProgFreak ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: November 08 2008 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 5195 |
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^ exactly. Personally, I don't ever think about that when I listen to music. A few years ago when I started to rip all my 1000+ albums as MP3, I was concerned ... but whenever I listened to the tracks - especially those that I had listened to on CD countless times over the years and knew in and out - I found no difference to the originals, and that really encouraged me to accept MP3.
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