How important are lyrics in prog?

Another thing about prog lyrics that I like a lot is that they often tackle subjects that pop music won't, or I feel they do a much better job of it. Also, prog rarely has a love song, which I find to be a usually boring cliche of most pop music.

I'm not all that fussed on what is going on with the lyrics in prog. It is all about the delivery of the complete package.

Here's my take on lyrics:

- Really bad delivery regardless of lyrics: I won't listen
- Really bad lyrics regardless of delivery: I won't listen unless the lyrics are unintelligible
- Mediocre lyrics, mediocre delivery: I probably won't listen
- Good lyrics, mediocre delivery: I'll listen to it if I can actually understand the lyrics
- Mediocre lyrics, good delivery: I'll listen to it
- Good lyrics and delivery: probably one of my favorite bands

Lyrics are moderately important to me, because I enjoy thinking about the music I hear not just from a musical perspective, but I still enjoy things like the Liquid Tension Experiment albums or extended KC instrumental songs.  I think it comes from my affinity for also enjoying writing lyrics/poetry/literature myself.  It's strange, because my major is kind of the polar opposite (computer science), but I'm kind of full of paradoxes -- for example, I needed a rest from what I was doing, so I turned on Catch 33 to relax, and it's working   Speaking of Meshuggah, I actually like their lyrics.  You can find a lot of truth in observing the workings of chaos.

I digress... So anyhow, it's no surprise that Tool, Rush (they DO have good lyrics -- I don't know what you guys are talking about), early Dream Theater, Porcupine Tree, and Pain of Salvation are among my favorite bands, but then you have some power metal cheese like Symphony X, Kamelot (4th Legacy is pretty hilariously cheesy, but still tolerable), and Sonata Arctica.  I suppose Opeth's lyrics have never been their strong point either, but they're not bad.

(I think it sticks out quite heavily that I'm more of a prog metal fan than older prog)

In most cases, they are not very important to me.  There are some important exceptions, though.

Toaster Mantis wrote: ... lots of people think of sci-fi and fantasy as "not real literature", and because lots of prog rock (not all of it, of course, but more than in ordinary rock) has SF/F lyrics, they dismiss it out of hand prematurely.

If what these people mean is that scifi/fantasy isn't literary, they're mostly right. Apart from a few literary works, which get filed in the 'literature' and not the 'scifi/fantasy' shelves, the genre exists primarily as entertainment, not art. Nothing to be ashamed of: I'd rather move someone than impress them.

That's why I laugh at the 'prog-snobs' (of whom there are, happily, only a few here) who argue that they are more intelligent than other music lovers because they like prog rock. The lyrics to most prog rock aren't exactly literary: we don't have an equivalent to Dylan or even Bruce Cockburn. And some of the fantasy/scifi stuff is appalling (RHAPSODY, for example). Lyrics in prog-rock are best when they are enigmatic, allowing the listener to use them as part of the soundscape.

MisterProg2112 wrote: micky wrote: ^ good opinion.. and the right one...  it's all about the music and delivery...  most of the sh*t that makes up prog lyrics is silly and complete rubbish anyway.. .Rush anyone?    I can see where you're coming from, but Rush's lyrics are not all that bad. I mean sure, there are quite a few that are ridiculous (ie: "I Think I'm Going Bald", "Tom Sawyer", "Working Man", "The Trees ") But, still there are quite a few of their lyrics that really stand out like "Limelight" portraying living life on a stage, "2112", tells a great story, "A Farwell to Kings" is about corruption of our leaders, "Cygnus X-1" tells another great story as well. Just an opinion.

What's wrong with Tom Sawyer?

I'll never undestand the bashing of prog rock lyrics. To me, it seems the density of good lyrics within the genre surpasses most other genres (pop, country, rock, etc.). Genesis, King Crimson (perhaps only the first couple of albums), Jethro Tull,  Van der Graaf Generator, Pink Floyd, Comus, Marillion, Pain of Salvation, Rush, Tool, and Yes all have incredible lyrics. I can't think of many other bands that surpass these guys (except for the obligatory Bob Dylan reference, I guess). Of course, the delivery and how it complements the music is also important (Genesis and VDGG being masters at this, imo), but these guys had important things to say and it seems to largely go ignored by their own fans who go along with prog critics saying that prog lyrics are sci-fi/fantasy rubbish and cold.

Edited by Kestrel - June 21 2008 at 15:27

Though I am partial to good lyrics, I recognise that they are not that important in prog, or rock in general. What really counts is the way the lyrics are delivered. Jon Anderson's lyrics, meaningless as they may be, are delivered so effectively that they become a perfect complement to the music, and his voice another instrument. Same could be said about the much-reviled Cedric Bixler-Zavala... I don't listen to TMV in order to hear wonderful poetry, but because I love their music, and in my very humble opinion their zany lyrics fit it to a T.

Edited by Ghost Rider - June 21 2008 at 14:27

But let's not dismiss how good some of the lyrics from the classic era are.  KC, Procol, even Yes at times, had great lyrics.  As for more recent material, I have no idea what Mars Volta is singing about, which is fine because that continues in the fine tradition started with Yes' Tales.