Thrash metal |
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Yukorin
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 21 2005 Location: Japan Status: Offline Points: 1589 |
Posted: May 10 2008 at 05:33 | |||||
He used to host a late-night TV show on a national channel in Japan about guitar playing, interviewing musicians, air-guitar competitions etc. Comes across as a real decent chap. Speaks perfect Japanese and apparently lives 5 minutes down the road from me in Shinjuku!
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Toaster Mantis
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 12 2008 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 5898 |
Posted: May 08 2008 at 06:39 | |||||
Yeah, but notice that in that case the reviewer's choice of words make it clear that he's terrified of this music - and remember, fear implies respect.
Today? Not only is rap causing most of the moral panics metal used to, but a lot of recent trendy "retro-metal" bands have a somewhat parodic vibe (look at the cover of the latest Municipal Waste album, or for that matter its song titles, if you want an example) that makes it look like they don't really respect the genre and its culture. Don't forget how SomethingAwful (and others) routinely dismiss metal as nothing but leftover feedback noise from adolescent testosterone poisoning. It's like mainstream culture has gone from shunning metal because it says something they don't want to hear to shunning metal because they refuse to even understand it.
All this becomes even more insulting to any self-respecting metal fan when you remember that - in Denmark at least - conservatives are still as scared by punk as they were back in the eighties.
Indeed. The worst music reviewers are those who are paid to do it.
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21211 |
Posted: May 08 2008 at 04:48 | |||||
^ I'd be glad if you could rate and tag some of your favorite Thrash albums at RF ... give Ride the Lightning some company!
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 08 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 7559 |
Posted: May 08 2008 at 04:34 | |||||
^It's not Spinal Tap's fault - if anything, Tap have helped me appreciate metal more for what it is - especially the tongue-in-cheek elements. And I cut my teeth on "On Parole".
Metal has always had a bad press - I remember reading a review of "Highway to Hell" in a fairly major UK Pop magazine in the late 1970s, which ripped it to shreds, awarding the album 3 stars (out of 10 - one of the lowest I'd ever seen in that particular publication) denouncing AC/DC as "Headbanging horrors", and the music as a cross between "a chainsaw and a piledriver".
I immediately sought it out as a result, and never read such shallow pop journalism again if I could help it. I could not believe how right/wrong they were - wrong to award it 3 stars, but right in the "Headbanging Horrors" stuff. I was hooked on AC/DC from that moment! Edited by Certif1ed - May 08 2008 at 04:36 |
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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Toaster Mantis
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 12 2008 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 5898 |
Posted: May 08 2008 at 03:16 | |||||
Hell, that's happened to metal in general... I blame either This Is Spinal Tap or grunge, those two things have meant most people today view metal as unintentionally amusing kitsch rather than a legitimately subversive artform.
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 08 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 7559 |
Posted: May 08 2008 at 02:53 | |||||
Well, as far as I see it, thrash is thrash - the whole alternate picking to get more speed out of riffs combined with the drum back beat (which "Exciter" and "I Don't Know" do not have, but "Black Metal" comes very close to) is what makes it thrash as opposed to speed metal.
The variations in rhythm came surprisingly quickly - that was the thing that astonished me when it all "blew up" back in '83, that it was all so very different and that bands were acquiring individual styles that were more radical than those developed by most NWoBHM bands - but those more advanced techniques are not the basis to thrash, just what made the better bands stand out from the simple bands.
The trouble is that "thrash" quickly became a dirty word, associated with some kind of mindlessness in playing - and bands tried to get the point across that what they did was more than "thra**".
In my opinion, they shouldn''t have! Thrash was a new technique in itself, that completely revolutionised metal and what could be done with it - and the biggest revolutionaries of this new technique-based style were the bands themselves, especially those who cultivated original styles.
It's all progressive.
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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npjnpj
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 05 2007 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 2720 |
Posted: May 08 2008 at 02:40 | |||||
I usede to listen to a lot of it, but at the moment I seem to be on a different track.
One exception though is 'Mekong Delta'. This is thrash with just that little bit 'extra' that gets me hooked even if I seem to have mellowed slightly in my musical tastes.
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21211 |
Posted: May 07 2008 at 16:04 | |||||
^ no, that's exactly what I mean. I'm sure there are many ways to identify thrash ... for many people it can simply be the speed and brutality of drums, bass and guitar (they're "thrashing" their instruments).
For me it was always the elaborate riffing, with heavy syncopation in respect to the drum patterns and with atonal (non-diatonic) harmonies. |
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 08 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 7559 |
Posted: May 07 2008 at 13:28 | |||||
^I've never associated syncopation with thrash as an essential element, except between the drums and synchronised guitars - far less dotted rhythms. For example, "Whiplash" is a perfect example of "raw" thrash, and "Highway Star" is one of the earliest examples I can think of that uses alternate picking for a "chugging" riff that stays on a single note for a significant proportion - particularly in the solos. It's only the interesting bits of thrash that do the clever syncopated stuff, surely? Or did you mean something else? |
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21211 |
Posted: May 07 2008 at 10:57 | |||||
I don't think that those riffs are very close to thrash. They don't need to be utterly complex, but there should be a decent "level" of syncopation of 16th notes / dotted 8ths. I think a good example would be Slayer's Skeletons of Society ... |
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Toaster Mantis
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 12 2008 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 5898 |
Posted: May 07 2008 at 10:39 | |||||
I stand corrected. I just get more of a typical thrash... vibe, attitude, atmosphere, whatever you call it, when I listen to Venom than from 1970s proto-thrash like Highway Star or Exciter. Maybe it's the rawness that does the trick?
I think it's just you.
Different strokes for different folks, I guess... my favourite Celtic Frost records are the early ones that basically sound like a more epic version of Hellhammer but Into the Pandemonium just bores me. I think of that album as either a bad practical joke or a textbook example of how not to go experimental. |
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 08 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 7559 |
Posted: May 07 2008 at 04:19 | |||||
They can be, if you like, but I always see a prototype as something that was developed before the event, and there are proto-thrash pieces that predate Venom. I don't think it's true that all the first thrash bands were inspired by them - although it's beyond question that some were.
The categorisation doesn't matter at all - of course Venom were a heavy metal band, they were part of the NENWoBHM. They also called their first album "Black Metal", so if anyone can claim to have played it, then Venom are a leading light... er... dark?
Certainly, Venom developed a new sound and inspired more bands than many of their peers.
Earlier proto-thrash also exists - Deep Purple's "Highway Star", for example, but the two tracks mentioned above use the alternate picking rhythm style in a manner much more closely aligned to the thrash "movement".
The only point I was making was that "Exciter" (and Ozzy's "I Don't Know") were significantly before Venom, so I think that Venom were a bit late to be considered proto-thrash. However, I get your point with the title track of "Black Metal"
I'm listening to it now - and it's amazing just how much of the "thrash" sounds like Diamond Head played on more distorted guitars... It's the drums that really let it down - with the exception of the title track and "Heaven's on Fire", the back beat that "makes" thrash is noticeably absent in favour of two-to-the-floor, and "Black Metal" features a standard Motorhead beat.
Is it me, or does "Buried Alive" sound exactly like Nirvana?
I'd forgotten just how progressive this album is in every aspect...
You don't need to tell me, bro!
Hmm - everyone remembers it differently - I've read a few articles on that, but until I actually hear the evidence, I have to stick with what I've heard.
All I remember about Hellhammer is that they sounded awful. Think I need to revisit them, as Celtic Frost were awesome.
Having revisted "Seven Churches" recently, I realise that the track "Death Metal" does not, in fact, have an odd time signature. I must have been thinking of "Excorcist" or one of the other warped time tracks.
/clipped the stuff on modern metal - let's keep this thread on thrash, and modern metal can have another thread, if it likes.
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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Toaster Mantis
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 12 2008 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 5898 |
Posted: May 07 2008 at 02:36 | |||||
Tank? I have a metal anthology which has a Tank song on it... I think I'll dig that up. |
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debrewguy
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 30 2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 3596 |
Posted: May 06 2008 at 22:06 | |||||
Hey Guys, I said give Tank a listen - Filth Hounds of Hades. Please, the world needs more Motorhead clones. That and you can feel cool by citing the fact that the bass player/singer/band leader used to be the Stranglers or the Damned's bass player.
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"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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Toaster Mantis
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 12 2008 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 5898 |
Posted: May 06 2008 at 11:30 | |||||
Owning Apocalyptic Raids 1990 A. D. I know about that compilation, I just thought it was connected to a magazine of the same name. |
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Statutory-Mike
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 15 2008 Location: Long Island Status: Offline Points: 3737 |
Posted: May 06 2008 at 07:57 | |||||
I'm not huge on thrash but I do listen to Testament, Megadeth, Pantera, and Slayer every once in a while. Also, a really impressive new thrash band is Trivium IMO. Some pretty good guitarwork.
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21211 |
Posted: May 06 2008 at 06:45 | |||||
^ agreed ... I particularly liked Never, Neverland. Stone Wall is an awesome track!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2JgYoTeivI |
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Petrovsk Mizinski
Prog Reviewer Joined: December 24 2007 Location: Ukraine Status: Offline Points: 25210 |
Posted: May 06 2008 at 06:04 | |||||
^I forgot about Annihilator, but now that you bring it up, yes they are positively awesome and Jeff Waters is an awesome guitarist. I always throw the thumbs up Testament too, underrated and more influential than some people realise. Edited by HughesJB4 - May 06 2008 at 06:50 |
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darkshade
Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: November 19 2005 Location: New Jersey Status: Offline Points: 10964 |
Posted: May 05 2008 at 19:51 | |||||
Testament used to be one of my favs. What about OVERKILL?? Early Metallica, as well as classic Metallica is great.
Annihilator? Death Angel? early Megadeth? all great thrash. havent listened to thrash metal (or much of any metal for that matter) in ages. maybe ill throw on some if i find the time. |
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mithrandir
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 25 2006 Location: New Mexico Status: Offline Points: 933 |
Posted: May 05 2008 at 19:36 | |||||
hmm, I think you might be referring to the Compilation album called "Death Metal" on Noise Records 1984, it also had the bands Running Wild, Dark Avenger and Helloween, ....the terms, Black, Thrash, Speed, Death, Doom, had been floating around quite a bit during the early/mid 80s before they started to settle into distinct genres by the mid to late 80s, Hellhammer and Frost had just as much to do as influencing Death Metal as Death did, not to mention dozens of other lesser known bands that only put out demos during that time, Massacre, Slaughter, Savage Death, Poison, Deathstrike, and so fourth, |
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