Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Suggest New Bands and Artists
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - what about joe satriani?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic Closedwhat about joe satriani?
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 7>
Author
Message Reverse Sort Order
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21206 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2008 at 10:09
^ sorry, but he's the textbook definition of "guitar shredder" ... together with Vai and all the other guys who they invite on the G3 tours. IMO the two key guitar shredder albums are Steve Vai's Passion and Warfare and Joe Satriani's Surfing with the Alien, both are from the 80s.

BTW: shredding doesn't have to be mindless ... it just refers to music which is inherently technical and virtuosic. I don't know about Hackett, but there's a cool Howe shred album too (Quantum Guitar).


Edited by MikeEnRegalia - April 08 2008 at 10:12
Recently listened to:
Back to Top
BaldJean View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: May 28 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10387 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2008 at 09:56
well, the last time I heard Satriani was about 10 years ago, and he definitely was NOT a shredder back then. he may have changed though recently; I don't know about that. but back then his intonation reminded me a lot of Steve Hackett, however mad that may sound to you


A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2008 at 08:59

...not here. Tongue

Shred Guitar is not a genre or a technique - Steve Hackett employs all the techniques but he is not a shredder. Being able to play fast, or complicated (or even well) does not qualify a musician for inclusion here (on any instrument) - what is important is the music, not how it is played - if the music is not Progressive Rock, or related to Progressive Rock in someway, then we do not include the artist on this site. Stern%20Smile
What?
Back to Top
bluesynight View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: March 03 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 103 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2008 at 07:53
when a shredder works with a band its prog(DT) , but when the shredder works as a "shredder" (pure shredder)  you say its not prog. satriani dont have a genre, and as a shreader (shred is a technic that more  "visible" in fusion and prog metal then in any other genre) he should be in prog related.

so lets do it like this, if his not prog what is he?
The Irish gave the bagpipes to the Scotts as a joke, but the Scotts haven't seen the joke yet.
(Oliver Herford)
Back to Top
debrewguy View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 30 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3596 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2008 at 19:54
If Vai, with a more eclectic career )Zappa, Flea-able, some of his more esoteric comps on his first 2 proper solo albums) than Satch could only make to prog related , it makes sense that Satch would be a stretch. I think we're only seeing a battle because of the rabid fan base (well deserved) that he has. 
"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2008 at 19:49
Originally posted by debrewguy debrewguy wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Well ... as a matter of fact there are some more shredders which were cleared for addition by the PMT: JT Bruce, Chris Brooks, Marty Friedman, Kiko Loureiro, Tony MacAlpine, Chris Poland and Ron Thal. 


Awright ! I love this guy. Once we get Friedman & Poland in, we'll be able to push for Megadeth's inclusion. Then Dave Mustaine will be able to claim one victory over his old bandmates in M@$#%^^#a!
Chris Poland's been here for about 3 years: http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=1611 (I strongly recommend the "live" album)
What?
Back to Top
debrewguy View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 30 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3596 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2008 at 19:48
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ Listen to bands like Linkin Park if you want to get closer to the definition of "mass appeal". The only "mass-compatible" song on Systematic Chaos is Forsaken, and that strategy (to have one or two "hit singles" on an album) was used by many prog bands, even some of those considered to be the core of the classic prog movement.


Like when King Crimson went new wave in the 80s, you mean Tongue
"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
Back to Top
debrewguy View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 30 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3596 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2008 at 19:44
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

^ well does he avoid the plastic, vapid commercial crap that shows up on almost every Satch album?  I love Satriani but he's recorded some God awful stuff that's purely intended for mass appeal.. nothing wrong with that but it's a reason one could site for non-inclusion at a prog site





I've read that here about Hogarth's Marillion. Or even Neo - Prog in general. Don't agree with it. Mind you, I'm just starting to get into Brave & Marbles. Have yet to see why some see absolutely no prog in there ???
"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
Back to Top
debrewguy View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 30 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3596 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2008 at 19:40
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Well ... as a matter of fact there are some more shredders which were cleared for addition by the PMT: JT Bruce, Chris Brooks, Marty Friedman, Kiko Loureiro, Tony MacAlpine, Chris Poland and Ron Thal. 


Awright ! I love this guy. Once we get Friedman & Poland in, we'll be able to push for Megadeth's inclusion. Then Dave Mustaine will be able to claim one victory over his old bandmates in M@$#%^^#a!
"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
Back to Top
JLocke View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2008 at 15:33

Satriani is Jazz/Fusion  all the way as far as I am concerned. Sadly, it is not up to me whether or not to include the man. I have in in the Jazz-Rock/Fusion section of my album shelf at home, but the archives doesn't consider him unique enough to include him. While I certainly do not agree with this opinion, alas this is the way it is.

However I do agree that if Steve Vai is good enough for "Prog-Related", Satriani should be as well. That, however, is up to the admins, who call the shots when it comes to the PR section of the 'chives. I personally hope that one day artists like Dimmu Borgir, Andreas Vollenweider and yes, Joe Satriani will find their rightful place here, and if PR ends up being where they reside, that's just fine by me. At least they would be here.
Back to Top
keiser willhelm View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 14 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1697 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2008 at 19:59
satch is a great soloist who doesnt have many connections to prog. Prog = Great Playing ability, but Great playing ability does not = Prog. if you would give some examples or explain how exactly satch is related to prog then maybe your case would be supported. as of right now i dont think you are. 
What im listening to
Back to Top
bluesynight View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: March 03 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 103 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2008 at 19:15
shred is the force that stands behind allot of the prog. its one of the the thing that makes fusion fusion.
if you take symphony x and take away the symphonic part, it still be considered as prog just because of Michael Romeo who is a great SHREADER! shread is a big part of prog metal as well. shred = high playing ability, and yes in prog  high playing ability is impotent.  so if you had a metal band that use allot of shread you would considered it as prog, but when you have a true genius like satriani that use only shred, then his not? shred is a big part of prog.



Quote

show me some daring, experimental stuff.


how many guitar players you know that did what he did before him (pure instrumental guitar shred).
i really cant think even about one name right now. Satch was the first shredder to sell  A LOTHug of records for a major label.

he should be in prog related.
The Irish gave the bagpipes to the Scotts as a joke, but the Scotts haven't seen the joke yet.
(Oliver Herford)
Back to Top
MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21206 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2008 at 18:11
^ you still didn't say why you think that pure shred should be considered to be prog.

BTW: I would say that the music of Joe Satriani *defines* shred. It's instrumental music focused on the guitar, with tremendous technicality *and* tasteful songwriting. The latter isn't required for something to be called "shred", but it helps to make a lasting impression.Wink But all that isn't prog IMO, it can only become prog if additional elements are added, like solid Jazz-Fusion tendencies, Avant/Experimental parts etc.. Of course considering Satriani's Engines of Creation there could be a case for inclusion, but it's not a defining part of his discography ... and still - like Vai - it would only be enough for prog-related.
Recently listened to:
Back to Top
bluesynight View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: March 03 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 103 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2008 at 17:05
satriani not a shredder? i can go all technicals about why his a shredder, and i can all so find you the definition of  "shred", but  A) my english suck, and its taking me to much time to type in english, and B) i really dont want to. and they are "only shredders", most of they music is focusing on the guitar playing, and not on the band as whole. for example petrucci is all so a shreader, but in DT case they work as a group. unlike satriani vai and Malmsteen that in they case its focusing on the guitar playing... but over all its all  shred, and in MY opinion its should be considered as prog.  and i just wondering, what would you call satch (genre of course)? 
The Irish gave the bagpipes to the Scotts as a joke, but the Scotts haven't seen the joke yet.
(Oliver Herford)
Back to Top
WaywardSon View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: April 23 2006
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 2537 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2008 at 16:13
I don´t consider Satriani or Vai shredders, sure they can shred when they want to ,but to label them only "a shredder" is a bit of a generalization, Malmsteen is more of a shredder.
I also didn´t really understand that last post saying pure shredders should be added??
Back to Top
MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21206 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2008 at 15:22
^ what's your reason ... why should pure shredders be added? I seriously want to understand this.Smile
Recently listened to:
Back to Top
bluesynight View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: March 03 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 103 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2008 at 15:10
its simple, if you consider "pure shredders" as prog, he should be here(prog related) , if not, then he dont..
i understood that you don't, i don't agree, but i can respect that.
The Irish gave the bagpipes to the Scotts as a joke, but the Scotts haven't seen the joke yet.
(Oliver Herford)
Back to Top
Angelo View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin

Joined: May 07 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 13244 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2008 at 04:33
He's got at least one vote against him there.
ISKC Rock Radio
I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected]
Back to Top
WaywardSon View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: April 23 2006
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 2537 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2008 at 02:46
The only place where he could fit is Prog Related IMO
Back to Top
TheProgtologist View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin

Joined: May 23 2005
Location: Baltimore,Md US
Status: Offline
Points: 27802 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2008 at 01:39
This is easy to solve....what sub-genre do you propose Satriani for?
 
That proposal can be given to the appropriate genre team here,and they can discuss the issue and vote on whether Satch should be included.
 
If he gets accepted for inclusion..cool,if not....we can all move on,because this discussion is going nowhere.


Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 7>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.122 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.