There's a difference between art rock and prog (though prog is part of the art rock genre). The Beatles were art rock but not prog- there.

BTW, about Ringo, I think his drumming on "Day in the Life" is amazing (not technically which I couldn't care less about, but feeling...ly)

Certif1ed wrote: Proglover wrote: maani wrote: Proglover: Define "ahead." The request is rhetorical.  Yes, Zappa was influenced by Edgar Varese and Karlheinz Stockhausen, just to mention two.  And he incorporated other genres into his music before they did. But you make a fundamental error here.  The Beatles had little interest in that sort of "progressiveness."  Their music progressed far more "naturally" - or "organically," if you prefer.  Sure, Zappa was using all sorts of oddball and bizarre (for rock) ideas and influences, but that doesn't mean he was "ahead" of The Beatles in any way.  It simply means he had different influences, and took his music in a different direction.  And I repeat that, with the exception of GG and KC (and, perhaps to a lesser degree, JT) the other seminal prog groups - PF, MB, VDGG, Yes, Genesis, ELP - were influenced by The Beatles and/or others, but not Zappa.  And even KC and GG admit to Beatles influence as well. And by the way, if you really believe that hogwash about Zappa never doing drugs, I have about seven dozen bridges to sell you! Peace. WHY IS IT SO HARD TO BELIEVE THAT ZAPPA NEVER DID DRUGS!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?..................OH WAIT A MINUTE...I THINK HE DID TRY SMOKING SOMETHING ONCE......AND IT MADE HIS THROAT HURT..AND HE NEVER TRIED IT AGAIN.....THE MAN FIRED PEOPLE IN HIS BAND WHEN HE FOUND OUT THEY WERE DOING DRUGS........HE OPENLY AND PUBLICALLY DENOUNCED DRUG USE......SORRY MAANI BUT YOU ARE WRONG!!!!!!!.........Now, ok let me catch my breath......my comments about Zappa being light years ahead of the Beatles was in reference to his experimentation, his genius in composition, the tightness of his band....he went places with his music that the Beatles could only dream of.....FIRST off, all due respect to the Beatles but from a technical standpoint, they weren't great musicians by any stretch of the imagination.....from a technical standpoint Zappa's band wiped the floor with them, from a compositional standpoint, Zappa wrote complex, sophisticated, intricate music that once again the Beatles could never do because, number one they didn't have the mind for it, and two, they did not have the technical skill to pull it off......AND ONCE AGAIN............ZAPPA DID NOT DO DRUGS.....GET OVER IT PEOPLE!!!!!!!!! BUT For all his skills and virtuosity, Zappa could not write songs that touched as many people as the Beatles did. He could not write songs that went straight into folklore, and he could not bite his tongue, but he HAD to express himself ALL the time. This is not to belittle the great man's work, but really, one cannot compare Zappa to the Beatles and come out saying that one is better than the other in any degree of certainty. The Beatles were the greatest rock band on the planet ever, and Lennon/McCartney were an unparalleled songwriting duo - Simon and Garfunkel not too far behind. Zappa was the greatest rock composer ever. But he didn't change the world of rock music like the Beatles did. The two are polar opposites - why even try to compare them?

I dont think that was Zappa's goal....I wouldn't say that Zappa COULDN'T write songs like that...I believe he CHOSE not to.....that wasn't what Zappa was about. His philosophy on music was COMPLETELY different......and YES of course the Beatles influenced more people than Frank Zappa.....and that's because Zappa was so "OUT THERE" and AHEAD OF EVERYONE ELSE......how the heck can you influence someone when you are lightyears ahead of EVERYONE!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!........and influence must be taken with a grain of salt.....Zappa was never about influencing people because he couldn't care less!!!....I mean lets be honest some bands were influenced by KISS.....so, once again influence means nothing to me.

Secondly what's wrong with not biting your tongue????.....what's wrong with ALWAYS expressing yourself???.....I'll answer that.....NOTHING!!!....hee hee.

Thirdly the Beatles are an IMPORTANT band in the history of rock and yes they did break alot of ground and broke down barriers....BUT, the Beatles ARE NOT the greatest rock band ever on planet earth.....In my humble opinion.

i dont enjoy beatles'

prefare 'black sabbath or led zeppelin'

Proglover wrote: maani wrote: Proglover: Define "ahead." The request is rhetorical.  Yes, Zappa was influenced by Edgar Varese and Karlheinz Stockhausen, just to mention two.  And he incorporated other genres into his music before they did. But you make a fundamental error here.  The Beatles had little interest in that sort of "progressiveness."  Their music progressed far more "naturally" - or "organically," if you prefer.  Sure, Zappa was using all sorts of oddball and bizarre (for rock) ideas and influences, but that doesn't mean he was "ahead" of The Beatles in any way.  It simply means he had different influences, and took his music in a different direction.  And I repeat that, with the exception of GG and KC (and, perhaps to a lesser degree, JT) the other seminal prog groups - PF, MB, VDGG, Yes, Genesis, ELP - were influenced by The Beatles and/or others, but not Zappa.  And even KC and GG admit to Beatles influence as well. And by the way, if you really believe that hogwash about Zappa never doing drugs, I have about seven dozen bridges to sell you! Peace. WHY IS IT SO HARD TO BELIEVE THAT ZAPPA NEVER DID DRUGS!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?..................OH WAIT A MINUTE...I THINK HE DID TRY SMOKING SOMETHING ONCE......AND IT MADE HIS THROAT HURT..AND HE NEVER TRIED IT AGAIN.....THE MAN FIRED PEOPLE IN HIS BAND WHEN HE FOUND OUT THEY WERE DOING DRUGS........HE OPENLY AND PUBLICALLY DENOUNCED DRUG USE......SORRY MAANI BUT YOU ARE WRONG!!!!!!!.........Now, ok let me catch my breath......my comments about Zappa being light years ahead of the Beatles was in reference to his experimentation, his genius in composition, the tightness of his band....he went places with his music that the Beatles could only dream of.....FIRST off, all due respect to the Beatles but from a technical standpoint, they weren't great musicians by any stretch of the imagination.....from a technical standpoint Zappa's band wiped the floor with them, from a compositional standpoint, Zappa wrote complex, sophisticated, intricate music that once again the Beatles could never do because, number one they didn't have the mind for it, and two, they did not have the technical skill to pull it off......AND ONCE AGAIN............ZAPPA DID NOT DO DRUGS.....GET OVER IT PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!

BUT

For all his skills and virtuosity, Zappa could not write songs that touched as many people as the Beatles did.

He could not write songs that went straight into folklore, and he could not bite his tongue, but he HAD to express himself ALL the time.

This is not to belittle the great man's work, but really, one cannot compare Zappa to the Beatles and come out saying that one is better than the other in any degree of certainty.

The Beatles were the greatest rock band on the planet ever, and Lennon/McCartney were an unparalleled songwriting duo - Simon and Garfunkel not too far behind.

Zappa was the greatest rock composer ever. But he didn't change the world of rock music like the Beatles did.

The two are polar opposites - why even try to compare them?

maani wrote: Proglover: Define "ahead." The request is rhetorical.  Yes, Zappa was influenced by Edgar Varese and Karlheinz Stockhausen, just to mention two.  And he incorporated other genres into his music before they did. But you make a fundamental error here.  The Beatles had little interest in that sort of "progressiveness."  Their music progressed far more "naturally" - or "organically," if you prefer.  Sure, Zappa was using all sorts of oddball and bizarre (for rock) ideas and influences, but that doesn't mean he was "ahead" of The Beatles in any way.  It simply means he had different influences, and took his music in a different direction.  And I repeat that, with the exception of GG and KC (and, perhaps to a lesser degree, JT) the other seminal prog groups - PF, MB, VDGG, Yes, Genesis, ELP - were influenced by The Beatles and/or others, but not Zappa.  And even KC and GG admit to Beatles influence as well. And by the way, if you really believe that hogwash about Zappa never doing drugs, I have about seven dozen bridges to sell you! Peace.

WHY IS IT SO HARD TO BELIEVE THAT ZAPPA NEVER DID DRUGS!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?..................OH WAIT A MINUTE...I THINK HE DID TRY SMOKING SOMETHING ONCE......AND IT MADE HIS THROAT HURT..AND HE NEVER TRIED IT AGAIN.....THE MAN FIRED PEOPLE IN HIS BAND WHEN HE FOUND OUT THEY WERE DOING DRUGS........HE OPENLY AND PUBLICALLY DENOUNCED DRUG USE......SORRY MAANI BUT YOU ARE WRONG!!!!!!!.........Now, ok let me catch my breath......my comments about Zappa being light years ahead of the Beatles was in reference to his experimentation, his genius in composition, the tightness of his band....he went places with his music that the Beatles could only dream of.....FIRST off, all due respect to the Beatles but from a technical standpoint, they weren't great musicians by any stretch of the imagination.....from a technical standpoint Zappa's band wiped the floor with them, from a compositional standpoint, Zappa wrote complex, sophisticated, intricate music that once again the Beatles could never do because, number one they didn't have the mind for it, and two, they did not have the technical skill to pull it off......AND ONCE AGAIN............ZAPPA DID NOT DO DRUGS.....GET OVER IT PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!

It wasn't the Beatles that invented Prog, but :

James Prog

This article is about the Scottish engineer and inventor.

---

James Prog (January 19, 1736–August 19, 1819) was a Scottish mathematician and engineer whose improvements to the prog-steam-engine were a key stage in the Musical Revolution.

He was born in Greenock, Scotland, and lived and worked in Birmingham, England. He was a key member of the Lunar Society a then famous Prog-Steam-Band. Many of his papers and compositions are in Birmingham Central Library.

< =text/> //

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Odd24 wrote: Can anyone tell me what time signature the Beatles' "Hapiness is a warm gun" is in? Sounds like a regular Gentle Giant song to me...

I think there's a bit where it goes into 6/8 but Ringo carries on in 4/4. The most complicated song (time signature-wise) they ever recorded. What about the "Mother Superior jump the gun" bit? isn't that in bars of 9 and 10?

Sorry Guys....Zappa was lightyears ahead of the Beatles...AND HE NEVER DID DRUGS!!!!!!!!!!!

The Sgt. Pepper Album was considered the foundation of prog because it was a concept album.....however I doubt whether it was the FIRST concept album.

Also the Beatles were not the ONLY band to come over from England during the British invasion. Yes, it is true the Beatles brought with them alot of influences that would later influence prog music, but so did those other bands which came from England around the same time...the only difference is, the Beatles were more popular.

I do honor and respect the Beatles for their place in rock history. They proved that rock bands could write their own music.....and that's saying something.....but that being said, once again Frank Zappa was a MILLION YEARS ahead of the Beatles and I must once again reiterate...HE NEVER DID DRUGS!!!