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rileydog22 View Drop Down
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Points: 8844 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 30 2007 at 21:48
Originally posted by The Whistler The Whistler wrote:

...Okay, barring Passion Play, where would they have gone?


In what way is recording a challenging 45-minute epic, the most progressive work of their career, selling out?

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Points: 7113 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 30 2007 at 16:47
ALRIGHT! Kick ass.
 
Yeah, I think that Prog Folk is fine too. Ian's always been straddling that line between folk and hard rock...with jazzy, bloozy, Celtic, psychodelic, artsy undertones. And some progressive ones too, if memory serves.
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Points: 65258 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 30 2007 at 06:35
   I would say Heavy - if you consider the bulk of the work and their heavy blooz beginnings - but frankly I think ProgFolk is fine for them



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Points: 7113 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 30 2007 at 03:02
...Okay, barring Passion Play, where would they have gone?
"There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson
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rileydog22 View Drop Down
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Points: 8844 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 30 2007 at 02:54
Crossover prog, cause they sold out.  

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Points: 7113 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 30 2007 at 02:53
Hey, I have a hypothetical question...if the diabolical, and misinformed, plan to move the Tull into art rock had taken place, which of the sub-sub categories would have Ian and the lads been finally dumped into?
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andu View Drop Down
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Points: 3089 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2007 at 21:18
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by ProgRobUK ProgRobUK wrote:

the split makes sense to me even though I think there will be lots of confusion over heavy prog and prog metal.
 

Cheers



I doubt it




I also think the heavy thing is pretty clear in people's minds. One can't really say metal when talking about the 70s, at least not after what we've been through after the 70s. Back then people thought different - I just saw Woody Allen's "Annie Hall", and, when his character struggles to find the perfect matching word to use when asking about a rock concert, he doesn't say "was it metal?", but instead he asks about it's heavyosity... LOL


Didn't know where to post this - either here or in the "You invents a word" thread LOL
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Points: 144 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2007 at 19:18

"genre" is a shaky concept, "subgenre" is an even more shaky one. the controversy will never end; i am in acceptance of that.
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Points: 65258 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2007 at 19:10
Originally posted by ProgRobUK ProgRobUK wrote:

the split makes sense to me even though I think there will be lots of confusion over heavy prog and prog metal.
 

Cheers



I doubt it


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Points: 76 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2007 at 19:01
Originally posted by clarke2001 clarke2001 wrote:


And heavy prog is Tangerine Dream I guess...that damn equipment must've been very heavyWink
 
LOL I saw them back around 1981 and that was the first time I ever saw a band with (a) an interval in the show and (b) people rushing to the front to ogle the kit.  It sure looked heavy to me.
 
But seriously, the split makes sense to me even though I think there will be lots of confusion over heavy prog and prog metal.
 
Cheers
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Points: 7744 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 28 2007 at 12:32
Originally posted by Fassbinder Fassbinder wrote:

Originally posted by darqdean darqdean wrote:

However I do agree with classifying VdGG, KC and GG together in one place - the problem then comes with who is worthy enough to join such an exhalted club. (Well, Fripp and Hammill solos aside Wink), I do not envy the person who elects to add the fourth band.
 
Gnidrolog   ?

seconded.
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Points: 24429 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 28 2007 at 12:25
A week without Internet, and all hell breaks loose...Wink

Seriously, I haven't had the time to read all the posts because of very erratic Internet access, but as soon as I get back to Italy (next weekCry) I'll do my homework and probably join one of the three new teams.

BTW, I am one of the people behind the original idea for the split... Remember that the AR Team was a creation of Micky and I, and we immediately realised that the 'genre' was unmanageable as it was. Hopefully this innovation won't be an excuse for people to start calling each other names, as it seems to happen all too often nowadays.
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Points: 6419 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2007 at 14:43
Originally posted by Time Signature Time Signature wrote:

I just hope the archives won't end up like that ridiculous list of rock music on Wikipedia.


That list mentions "Classic Rock" as a genre! ShockedDeadAngryOuch

Wikipedia has never been a really good resource for music though.

I'm confident the owners of Prog Archives won't let the genre list on the website go completely out of hand. I don't think there's anything to worry about, really. Smile
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Points: 362 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2007 at 14:30
I just hope the archives won't end up like that ridiculous list of rock music on Wikipedia.
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andu View Drop Down
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Points: 3089 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2007 at 02:58
...dude.
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Points: 6890 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2007 at 01:41
Welcome backHug
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Atavachron View Drop Down
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Points: 65258 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2007 at 01:38
Hi everyone-- I was gone for ten days so sorry for not chiming in, and thanks for the great discussions and feedback. All bands that were ArtRock (the bulk of which are currently in Crossover) will be moved to Heavy, Eclectic or will stay in Crossover. It will take time, probably more than you think, but it will be done!








Edited by Atavachron - August 25 2007 at 01:39
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Points: 3497 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2007 at 10:36
Originally posted by darqdean darqdean wrote:

However I do agree with classifying VdGG, KC and GG together in one place - the problem then comes with who is worthy enough to join such an exhalted club. (Well, Fripp and Hammill solos aside Wink), I do not envy the person who elects to add the fourth band.
 
Gnidrolog   ?
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21162 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2007 at 09:25
Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Here's something interesting which I found at wikipedia:

The appropriation of "classical" music by heavy metal typically involves musical elements associated with Baroque, Romantic, and Modernist composers such as Johann Sebastian Bach, Niccolň Paganini, Richard Wagner, Ludwig van Beethoven, Béla Bartók, and Igor Stravinsky. The tritone, for instance, was already exploited for its dark, anguished connotations by Romantics like Franz Liszt and 20th-century classical composers such as Bartók, Stravinsky, and Arnold Schoenberg. Deep Purple/RainbowRitchie Blackmore began experimenting with musical figurations borrowed from classical music in the early 1970s. In the 1980s, guitarists Randy Rhoads and Uli Jon Roth looked to the early 18th century for models of speed and technique. Yngwie Malmsteen, drawing from similar roots, has inspired myriad neoclassical metal players including Michael Romeo, Michael Angelo Batio, and Tony MacAlpine. guitarist

Despite the fact that many metal musicians have cited classical composers as inspiration, heavy metal is hardly the modern descendant of classical music.[18] As many critics and analysts have observed, heavy metal musicians focus on and borrow only superficial aspects of classical music, such as motifs, melodies, and scales. Heavy metal bands, including progressive and neoclassical metal bands, generally do not try to observe the basic compositional and aesthetical exigencies of classical music. Classical music is erudite music, whereas heavy metal is popular music.[19]counterpoint that is central to the composer's work. Moreover, the extensive use of power chords in heavy metal, implying countless consecutive fifths and octaves, violates rules of harmony at the heart of the classical aesthetic.
Players who cite Bach as an influence, for example, seldom make use of the complex counterpoint that is central to the composer's work. Moreover, the extensive use of power chords in heavy metal, implying countless consecutive fifths and octaves, violates rules of harmony at the heart of the classical aesthetic.

I think that it's a bit harsh to say that all the aspects metal "borrows" from classical are superficial ... but I agree 100% that most (if not all) progressive metal albums are not a form of classical music. I don't think it's possible to create music which is both "erudite" and "popular" ... the two aspects are mutually exclusive. Maybe Orff's Carmina Burana comes close to achieving that ...

The point is: If you listen to a piece of neoclassical metal then you can't deny the profound influence of classical music.

Mike, the problem we have is a general problem of classification; what you call "prog metal with classical influences" would not land under "prog metal" at all with me. example: Adagio. metal is just one of many elements in their music and by far not the major one; if I had to file them in a single category I would never file them under "prog metal", I would file them under "symphonic prog".
of course I am not at all happy with a band belonging to one genre alone at all; the best solution would be to assign both labels to Adagio and be done with it. and even better to assign labels to albums anyway


You're always welcome on my website where I'm trying to do just that ... genre per album, multiple genres, you can even create genres of your own (by combining tags).Smile
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Dean View Drop Down
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2007 at 07:27
I think Eclectic-Prog as a name is going to cause problems - I've already seen it misread as Electric-Prog in the forum.
 
However I do agree with classifying VdGG, KC and GG together in one place - the problem then comes with who is worthy enough to join such an exhalted club. (Well, Fripp and Hammill solos aside Wink), I do not envy the person who elects to add the fourth band.
What?
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