Led Zeppelin?

Okay, okay. You won, folks. Zeppelin is not prog
The question is should they be in prog-related category? But that's not the main problem. The main problem is - you have to draw the line somewhere, right? I agree.

I perfectly understand why so many fellow members are raving about including LZ in PA. I'm also a prog fan, after all. Many people are scared that "dam" started cracking after Queen and Iron Maiden entered PA, and now after LZ joined in, we could except the flood of prog-related and prog-not-so-related bands.

Flood=disaster.

But why?

Personally, I would like to include Bowie, Metallica, Bonzo Dog Band, Cream...and many others...let me explain.

I don't feel that the flood is a disaster (although I don't think the flood will happen), I prefer to think of it as a flood of knowledge. What is so wrong about it? What is so wrong about knowing who influenced who, what else happened in music during the prog's heyday?

In my opinion, one more category should be added to the site:what affected prog.
It doesn't necessary need to be in the form of reviewed albums. Actually it can't be, because different music is not the only thing that affected progressive rock.
Everything could be mentioned here: Hendrix, XTC, Megadeth, Stones. Roger Dean and Frank Kelly Freas. Bob Moog, Lawrence Hammond and Leo Fender. Elvis, Fats Domino and Thelonius Monk. Stravinsky. Roger Zelazny and Edgar Allan Poe. Jethro Tull, 17th century agriculturist. Genghis-Khan, Jesus, Buddha. The Big Bang itself.

Of course, there would be no reviews, just the essays from the members, focusing on how person or item affected progrock.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want PA to became Wikipedia. And the problem will stay: where to draw to line in prog-related reviews section. We can rate the amount of how much some band influenced prog: on 1-10 scale, I will give 8 to Hendrix, 7 to Bowie, 5 to Sabbath, 1 to Lou Reed, 0 to Pistols etc. On the other hand, Pistols influenced modern music and therefore modern prog more than it's obvious at first sight. And every member will have different opinion.

But don't worry: even if that happened in some near future (and I don't think so), that would not touch the sacred temples of Elp, Yes and Tull.

So, why so much anger because of Led Zeppelin entry?

Okay, they are not prog. But they're obviously included here for some reason.
Even if you disagree with the foreword on the Led Zeppelin's PA page, there is still a reason why are they here. I don't think that's a joke, don't you think so?

A certain amount of prog fans on this site wanted LZ to be included. Even if you prove to each of them personally that (s)he is very wrong, you can't deny the fact that actually prog fans included Zep in the Archives. This deed was done by people's emotions more than definitions. You can't define art.

Sorry for the long and quite pathetic post, but I'm very emotional person and I don't know to express myself in some other way

You convinced me at one point: I will not try to describe LZ songs as prog simply because band that I love doesn't perfectly fit in the genre that I love. Carouselambra is not prog.

Call me hard-headed, but I still think The Crunge is

Peace.

Sean Trane wrote: Cheesecakemouse wrote: Sean Trane wrote: Name me ten Zeppelin prog tracks ...   C'm on !!!! Dare ya to......   Yup , Thought so!   Stairway to Heaven, Kashmir, Whole Lotta Love >>> Blues , No Quater, Over the hills and far away >> not prog , Four Sticks >> not prog , In the Light >> not prog (i think, can't really remember it, though), Achilles Last Stand, Dazed and Confused, How Many more times >> Willie Dixon blues , the Battle of Evermore,   Thats about 11 I can think of for now although HOH and Physical Graffitti have other prog moments.     Sorry only six, here!!! You might have forgotten Rain song and one on III, but you will not find 10

Let's see here, Stairway to Heaven, Kashmir, Achilles Last Stand are not prog, they're long, but they repeat the same thing over and over until I wonder how it can hold anyone's attention. (don't give me the "krautrock is repetitive" lecture, I know, and I don't like it.)  I'll let  Dazed and  Confused  pass  because  that  psychedelic part in the middle, while extremely boring, passes as prog for some I guess. 

This was an inclusion I wasn't in favour of. I'm not going to get into a chest beating frenzy about it, and at the end of the day, the owners supported their inclusion, but in principle, I feel Sean is EXACTLY right.

There are so few prog songs in Zeppelin's catalogue. 'No Quarter', 'The Song Remains The Same', 'The Rain Song', 'In The Light', 'Stairway To Heaven', 'Achilles Last Stand'...and that's it, imho. How on earth are the funk pastiche 'The Crunge', the blues rock of 'Whole Lotta Love' and the folk rock of 'Over The Hills and Far Away' prog?? I just cannot see it. Not one album is a prog album, and in fact those songs wouldn't make an album on their own- not enough. Their inclusion will mean all manner of heavy rock/metal bands are now proposed, and we lose focus of what we should really be concentrating on- proper prog. I think the 'prog related' concept is now completely exhausted- please leave it how it stands and leave off from further additions, before credibility will be completely strained, imo.

And the Asia argument isn't valid at all, I'm afraid. I think some people have only ever heard the debut. The Payne era, while hardly progressive rock, is certainly prog related in the same way Styx, Magnum etc are. All of those albums with the exception of 'Aqua', really, had a better mixture of melodic rock and prog, and a fuller sound. And at least Asia had the benefit of having the members they did have, though that's not an argument I ever use, it's easy to see why they are here.

Sean Trane wrote: Cheesecakemouse wrote: Sean Trane wrote: Name me ten Zeppelin prog tracks ...   C'm on !!!! Dare ya to......   Yup , Thought so!   Stairway to Heaven, Kashmir, Whole Lotta Love >>> Blues , No Quater, Over the hills and far away >> not prog , Four Sticks >> not prog , In the Light >> not prog (i think, can't really remember it, though), Achilles Last Stand, Dazed and Confused, How Many more times >> Willie Dixon blues , the Battle of Evermore,   Thats about 11 I can think of for now although HOH and Physical Graffitti have other prog moments.     Sorry only six, here!!! You might have forgotten Rain song and one on III, but you will not find 10

Four Stick is prog. Over The Hills And Far Away is prog. The Crunge. Carouselambra.
That's ten.
I'm gonna Crawl...
That's eleven.
Want more?

Now, your turn. Name ten Asia prog tracks?

Oh, of course you can.

Now compare them to Zeppelin tracks.

Which band is more progressive?

But that's pointless.

Peace

i must have been asleep yesterday, LED ZEPPELIN  are here at last! i knew they'd get here eventually, there has been much discussion, but all i got to say is

I hear elements of Led Zeppelin in The Mars Volta and hear Page sounding riffs here and there in a few prog bands. I recently listened to Camel's debut and thought some of the riffs were influenced by Page. I always thought Page and Howe had very similar sounding guitars, but don't know if Page actually influenced Howe. Page even sort of replaced Howe for the XYZ project.

Edited by earlyprog - November 23 2006 at 05:05

Cheesecakemouse wrote: Sean Trane wrote: Name me ten Zeppelin prog tracks ...   C'm on !!!! Dare ya to......   Yup , Thought so!   Stairway to Heaven, Kashmir, Whole Lotta Love >>> Blues , No Quater, Over the hills and far away >> not prog , Four Sticks >> not prog , In the Light >> not prog (i think, can't really remember it, though), Achilles Last Stand, Dazed and Confused, How Many more times >> Willie Dixon blues , the Battle of Evermore,   Thats about 11 I can think of for now although HOH and Physical Graffitti have other prog moments.

Certif1ed wrote: Cheesecakemouse wrote: Certif1ed wrote: Metallica next - there can be NO denying their influence on Prog metal. And then Judas Priest for the same reason.        Why not the Sex Pistols while your at it[IMG]height=17 alt=Confused src="http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif" width=17 align=absMiddle>      Good point - their influence on Prog Rock is legendary

Cheesecakemouse wrote: Certif1ed wrote: Metallica next - there can be NO denying their influence on Prog metal. And then Judas Priest for the same reason.        Why not the Sex Pistols while your at it[IMG]height=17 alt=Confused src="http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif" width=17 align=absMiddle>

    
Good point - their influence on Prog Rock is legendary