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oliverstoned View Drop Down

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Posted: August 10 2006 at 08:47

Hey! funny.

Or like these speakers

Edited by oliverstoned - August 10 2006 at 08:47

MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down

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Posted: August 10 2006 at 08:43

oliverstoned wrote:

In case of high end cables feat boxes like the ones pictured up, the need for running-in is obvious, because the boxes contain electronic circuits (kind of filters).

There are now (quite expensive) machines designed to run-in the cables quicker! (using a special signal).
If people are ready to pay 700€ for this kind of machine, that's not for the pleasure. It's because a new "big" cable doesn't work at all.

Actually, every component needs run in, the worst is probably speakers, which can need up to 300 hours to reach its full capacity.

One more time, these differences are big on a transparent system, not on a basic one.

One more time, these differences are big on a transparent system, unnoticeable on a standard/basic one.

A transparent system ... I take it this is one where you can see the tubes without opening the case? Wink

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Posted: August 10 2006 at 08:42

^ you mean whether it's audible or not? I agree ... as long as it looks impressive and has a tube, it must improve the sound! Wink

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Eetu Pellonpaa View Drop Down

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Posted: August 10 2006 at 08:39

MikeEnRegalia wrote:

...but I still think that even if there is a slight wear-in effect it would still not be audible.

This ofcourse is not a very important aspect in hard-core HiFism, I believe!

oliverstoned View Drop Down

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Posted: August 10 2006 at 08:27

In case of high end cables feat boxes like the ones pictured up, the need for running-in is obvious, because the boxes contain electronic circuits (kind of filters).

There are now (quite expensive) machines designed to run-in the cables quicker! (using a special signal).
If people are ready to pay 700€ for this kind of machine, that's not for the pleasure. It's because a new "big" cable doesn't work at all.

Actually, every component needs run in, the worst is probably speakers, which can need up to 300 hours to reach its full capacity.

One more time, these differences are big on a transparent system, unnoticeable on a standard/basic one.





Edited by oliverstoned - August 10 2006 at 08:45

MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down

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Posted: August 10 2006 at 06:13

^ no problem with all of that, but I still think that even if there is a slight wear-in effect it would still not be audible.

In order to show you where I'm coming from, here's the link: http://www.theaudiocritic.com/downloads/article_1.pdf

But I know that Olivier strongly disagrees, and let's not continue this further here ... there are enough 10+ page threads on the subject (audiophile vs. scientist) already. LOL

Edited by MikeEnRegalia - August 10 2006 at 06:17

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Posted: August 10 2006 at 06:06

^^^^^^^^

Mike,

I can see where your poiunt is coming from and I would still agree with you, as this running-in is a bit pushing things to far for a stereo application

BUT

In my line of research, we go through ageing of materials (in NDT but also in destructive testing) and search their propency to keep their original properties (including resistivity, magnetic, embrittlement , microfracture propagation etc...) but we only do this for steels (ferritic , austenitic, martensitic stainless steels) and I can garantee you that the ageing (or running in) is definitely very important for proper operations at their nominal properties. But we are doing this in the framework of extreme conditions (Furnaces and power plants) and only on Iron-derivatives

(Olivier is fully right speaking of weld and I passed my safety consultant thesis on weld, so I know a thing or two about it and the preheat and cooling down are extremely important )

However, if those principles are correct for steel, there is ansolutely no reason why this should not be the case as well for copper or most metals.

Why I say this solution of wire running-in being a bit pushed is that the wires operate at room temperatures and the heat generated from the operation of the stereo is rather negligeable (if the wires are not kept in bundles or coils in order to keep the stereo installation presentable. This attaching the cable is also stupid because it creates a capacitance effect which will ruin the good performance of the cable), and the cables are designed to generally work at 30% capacity of their full ability.

Where the real problem could happen and losses generated (and therefore heat generated) are at the connection points: the platted gold connectors are there to reduce the loss and thermal bridge effects.

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oliverstoned View Drop Down

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Posted: August 10 2006 at 05:54

Sad fellow!

MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down

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Posted: August 10 2006 at 05:45

^ ok, I'll add alchemy to the things you believe in, olivier (including astrology, drugs and power filters). Wink

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Posted: August 10 2006 at 05:43

Sean Trane wrote:

Eetu Pellonpää wrote:

Do you hear them reducing the audio quality? I'm a bit deaf, so I'm not very sensitive to sound quality. I believe there are also RCA cables of different quality, some seem to have stronger heads as others. What other cable types could be used to transfer data from an amplifier to a computer?

I was seriously doubting it would make a big difference at first, so the store manager let me take the unidirectional cables (careful how you connect them) home for a try out without paying. Next morning I was waiting ten minutes before opening hour of his shop to pay him and buy two more pairs. This is also very necessary for speakers. >>> noticeable difference, but if you are not sensible from the ears, then this might be superfluous investment

then the shop owner started telling me about the first weeks of pushing the cables to their limits in order to get full capacity of their performance. I think this is pushing it a little, though.

Wires are not cars

this is one of the famous 10 biggest lies of audio (cables need some time to unfold their true potential).

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oliverstoned View Drop Down

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Posted: August 10 2006 at 05:15

Indeed, cables need some running-in time, even more with high end cables if it features boxes. Actually everything's needs running-in, even welds needs some time cause there's an alchemy between the different matters.
Of course, these are subbtle differences which need a transparent system to be heard.

Big cables need a long running-in time

Edited by oliverstoned - August 10 2006 at 05:16

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Posted: August 10 2006 at 05:05

Eetu Pellonpää wrote:

then the shop owner started telling me about the first weeks of pushing the cables to their limits in order to get full capacity of their performance. I think this is pushing it a little, though.

Wires are not cars

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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down

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Posted: August 10 2006 at 04:56

Sean Trane wrote:

oliverstoned wrote:

I would use an audiophile burner and connect the turntable directly to it.

This is what I do.

the Hi-fi CD burner is the best way to burn Audio CDr. It has never failed me and my Cd-r are read everywhere flawlessly (well the car, not always, but it f**ks up also on regular Cds, too), which is simply not the case of multi-speed computer-burned CDrs

Slow, maybe and you must be staying close to it to watch out for it! The manual (no other trustworthy manner) incrementing of the tracks implies you must be around. If you get the 80 mins Cdr, you can easily squeeze two vinyls, but tyhere are some notable exceptions.

Reading that I must say that I'm quite happy to having left CDs/CD-Rs behind. It must have been 2 years since I last burned an audio CD ... Big smile

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Eetu Pellonpaa View Drop Down

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Posted: August 10 2006 at 04:52

Eetu Pellonpää wrote:

I have a RCA cable connected from my amplifier to my computer, so I can record anything connected to it (phono/tape/tuner/VCR/DVD/TV) as Wav with Cool Edit Pro, and then edit it with that.

Sean Trane wrote:

personally I will never use those RCA (red and white) cables anymore. They are awful. Other special cable may appear horrendously expensive but they do the job just fine. Problem is that my turntable (a very average Phillips) has those unremovable RCA cables .

Edited by Eetu Pellonpää - August 10 2006 at 04:53

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Posted: August 10 2006 at 04:48

As far as Hi FI CD burners, I have heard many horrible things about those multi-trays Cds recorders.

Best to use a unit containing the burner alone and using your normal Cd player as source.

the one Olivier shows is probably fairly expensive, but I use the Phillips (most likely a quarter of the expensive Denon prices) entry model and it seems to have exactly the same features and controls as the Denon. Although displayed differently, the controls are exactly the same and the display is also.

The inside of the machine is always the same, all there can be surrounding gadgets changing the prices. like multi-trays etc...

Edited by Sean Trane - August 10 2006 at 04:57

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Eetu Pellonpaa View Drop Down

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Posted: August 10 2006 at 04:47

captainbeyond wrote:

Hi Eetu,

Do you have any thoughts on external burners?

I haven't ever even seen any...

MikeEnRegalia wrote:

... some will just want to cut it into single tracks, others will want to normalize it or de-noise it (which I wouldn't recommend, as it degrades the signal).

Some old recordings of very poor quality can get better with using noise/hiss filters, like old audience recordings & bootlegs.

krusty wrote:

CoolEdit has a whole bunch of tools to remove hiss, crackles and hum.
The end result IMO is like listening to the vinyl source.

But I would recommend to use these tools when they are absolutely neccesary, the CoolEdit hiss removal may make the sound mechanical, at least I have experienced this.

Edited by Eetu Pellonpää - October 06 2006 at 09:47

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Posted: August 10 2006 at 04:36

oliverstoned wrote:

I would use an audiophile burner and connect the turntable directly to it.

This is what I do.

Edited by Sean Trane - August 10 2006 at 04:40

let's just stay above the moral melee
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down

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Posted: August 10 2006 at 02:56

^ I'd always use a computer to record the analog signal ... for audiophile persons who don't believe that a computer soundcard can preserve the audio quality there are audiophile (read: expensive and with glowing circuitry Wink

) external soundcards. In the computer the recorded signal can be easily edited ... some will just want to cut it into single tracks, others will want to normalize it or de-noise it (which I wouldn't recommend, as it degrades the signal).

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Posted: August 10 2006 at 01:57

Hi Eetu,

Do you have any thoughts on external burners?

Eetu Pellonpaa View Drop Down

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Posted: August 10 2006 at 01:25

I have a RCA cable connected from my amplifier to my computer, so I can record anything connected to it (phono/tape/tuner/VCR/DVD/TV) as Wav with Cool Edit Pro, and then edit it with that.