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Sweetnighter 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 24 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1298
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 Posted: December 28 2004 at 00:58 |
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I don't get it!!! HOW is primus PROG? They've never done a concept
album or an epic, they're lyrics suck, they're lyricist sucks, they're
songs, as was pointed out, don't evolve... take hamburger train from
pork soda for example. Its 8 minutes.... of the same damn thing over and over again!!!! I
mean honestly... is Claypool amazing? Yes, he is, but just because he's
a great musician and he's doing something new with his backup team...
oh, i'm sorry, i mean the group he's in... doesn't mean that
he... i mean primus... is prog!!! PRIMUS = NOT PROG!!
PRIMUS = THE ANTI PROG!
styx is more prog than primus... especially they're
earlier stuff... at least they sound progressive... primus sounds more
like... punk, or.... crap, i don't know... and remember, i'm saying
that primus sounds bad, not les claypool....
man, am i salt tonight or what?
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I bleed coffee. When I don't drink coffee, my veins run dry, and I shrivel up and die.
"Banco Del Mutuo Soccorso? Is that like the bank of Italian soccer death or something?" -my girlfriend
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illustrated
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 19 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 352
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Posted: December 27 2004 at 20:56 |
 gdub411 wrote:
aqualung28 wrote:
Everybody here has a clear understanding of what makes prog prog, and while it is really close to not being prog, it belongs here if Zappa can be here, Beefheart can be here, and styx can be here |
Good point. Let's toss those 3 out and not include Primus either.
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Woah, wait a second. Zappa and Beefheart definitely belong here.
Primus can be argued, but I think they should be included.
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goose
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 20 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 4097
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Posted: December 27 2004 at 20:04 |
gdub411 wrote:
Good point. Let's toss those 3 out and not include Primus either. |
Much as I love Primus and Zappa (and probably Beefheart given a few
more years!) I wouldn't put any of them within the realms of prog.
Original, yes. Experimental, perhaps. But not prog!
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Reed Lover
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: Sao Tome and Pr
Status: Offline
Points: 5187
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Posted: December 27 2004 at 19:30 |
i saw Primus supporting Rush way back.................
Here are the votes from the Reed Land Jury: Primus:- Null Points!
Not prog,not much good either.
IMHO>
Oh, and Steven Hawking doesnt like them either.
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gdub411
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 24 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3484
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Posted: December 27 2004 at 19:25 |
aqualung28 wrote:
Everybody here has a clear understanding of what makes prog prog, and while it is really close to not being prog, it belongs here if Zappa can be here, Beefheart can be here, and styx can be here |
Good point. Let's toss those 3 out and not include Primus either.
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Prog_Bassist
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 29 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 830
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Posted: December 27 2004 at 17:47 |
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APPLES AND PIE LOOK SO NICE IN THE SKY!!!!!!
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Dead Jester
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 19 2004
Location: Western Sahara
Status: Offline
Points: 283
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Posted: December 27 2004 at 17:40 |
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Prog_Bassist
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 29 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 830
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Posted: December 27 2004 at 17:36 |
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Yeah, I have that, It's called "Miscellaneous Debris".
HAHA I REVIVED THE THREAD!!! IT SHALL BE LIKE MARIAH AFTERALL!!!!
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Wizard/TRueStar
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 04 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 675
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Posted: December 27 2004 at 13:10 |
I don't know if anyone mentioned this earlier in this thread but it is worthwhile to check out this Primus EP(which I forget the name of) where they do Peter Gabriel's "Intruder" and PF's "Have a Cigar". 
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aqualung28
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 03 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 916
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Posted: December 23 2004 at 12:52 |
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Everybody here has a clear understanding of what makes prog prog, and while it is really close to not being prog, it belongs here if Zappa can be here, Beefheart can be here, and styx can be here
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"O' lady look up in time o' lady look out of love
'n you should have us all
O' you should have us fall"
"Bill's Corpse" By Captain Beefheart
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Sweetnighter
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 24 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1298
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Posted: December 22 2004 at 23:52 |
maani wrote:
Sweetnighter:
You make a valid point. Indeed, re "apple," consider the following.
There are 100 people in a room. A person (not part of that
group) holds up a standard (red) apple and asks, "What color is this
apple?" 99 out of 100 people say "red." One person says
"blue." Under these circumstances, and assuming the 100th person
was not color blind and not joking, we would label them "crazy," which
relates to "sanity."
Now reverse it. 100 people in a room. A person (not part
of the group) holds up a standard (red) apple and asks, "What color is
this apple?" 99 out of 100 people say "blue." One person
says "red."
Thus, the definition of "sanity" - like the definition of "prog" - is what the majority says it is, regardless of whether that definition is correct.
Right? |
Very true, great point. Even in your situation, the congregants
understand that "red" or "blue" relates to whatever color is of a
typical apple. Similarly, we can call the music of Yes, ELP, Genesis,
etc. whatever we want to, but we know it relates to the music of those
groups, and those groups are united under that title for certain
reasons. In giving a band the title of being progressive rock, the
defining characteristics of that title must follow in a logical matter.
So, yes, although we can choose
progressive rock to mean anything, its much more convenient for it to
have a universally understood meaning, however rigidly or vaguely
understood that meaning is... but, IMO, its better if it has a slightly
more rigid definition than it currently has.
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I bleed coffee. When I don't drink coffee, my veins run dry, and I shrivel up and die.
"Banco Del Mutuo Soccorso? Is that like the bank of Italian soccer death or something?" -my girlfriend
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Dead Jester
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 19 2004
Location: Western Sahara
Status: Offline
Points: 283
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Posted: December 22 2004 at 20:42 |
We know where you live Reed !!!!!!!!!
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Reed Lover
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: Sao Tome and Pr
Status: Offline
Points: 5187
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Posted: December 22 2004 at 20:17 |
The proof. One problem Primus=prog-light!
Prog without the most important ingredient-progginess!
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aqualung28
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 03 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 916
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Posted: December 22 2004 at 19:48 |
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now in traditional fasion.: page 6 next!!!
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"O' lady look up in time o' lady look out of love
'n you should have us all
O' you should have us fall"
"Bill's Corpse" By Captain Beefheart
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Reed Lover
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: Sao Tome and Pr
Status: Offline
Points: 5187
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Posted: December 22 2004 at 19:25 |
James Lee wrote:
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They'd pay us up at my local club!
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James Lee
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 05 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 3525
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Posted: December 22 2004 at 19:24 |
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Reed Lover
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: Sao Tome and Pr
Status: Offline
Points: 5187
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Posted: December 22 2004 at 19:11 |
Yes, but where can I buy a blue apple?
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maani
Special Collaborator
Founding Moderator
Joined: January 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2632
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Posted: December 22 2004 at 19:01 |
Sweetnighter:
You make a valid point. Indeed, re "apple," consider the following.
There are 100 people in a room. A person (not part of that group) holds up a standard (red) apple and asks, "What color is this apple?" 99 out of 100 people say "red." One person says "blue." Under these circumstances, and assuming the 100th person was not color blind and not joking, we would label them "crazy," which relates to "sanity."
Now reverse it. 100 people in a room. A person (not part of the group) holds up a standard (red) apple and asks, "What color is this apple?" 99 out of 100 people say "blue." One person says "red."
Thus, the definition of "sanity" - like the definition of "prog" - is what the majority says it is, regardless of whether that definition is correct.
Right?
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Sweetnighter
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 24 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1298
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Posted: December 22 2004 at 18:21 |
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and btw, for clarification, i don't think primus is prog... maybe they have "prog flair" but they're not prog IMO.
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I bleed coffee. When I don't drink coffee, my veins run dry, and I shrivel up and die.
"Banco Del Mutuo Soccorso? Is that like the bank of Italian soccer death or something?" -my girlfriend
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Sweetnighter
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 24 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1298
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Posted: December 22 2004 at 18:19 |
maani wrote:
All:
Sweetnighter said: "Wait wait... shouldn't prog have some sort of
objective standard? just because the people on the board say something
is prog.... does that make it prog?"
First, the very idea of an "objective standard" is (sadly, perhaps) laughable: we've had that
discussion at least a dozen times on the site. No, my definition
of "prog" will differ from yours, even if there are many overlapping
elements.
Ultimately, if Sweetnighter (and others) feel so strongly about
Primus being prog, they are perfectly free to start their own
progressive music site and include them. As for ProgArchives, Max
and Rony created the site, and have the right to decide - totally in
their own discretion - what they consider "prog."
That said, making a good case for a band can help get it on the
site, and Max is always willing to listen to a band carefully before
making a final decision. I would caution, however, that he
remains particularly sensitive to how far he stretches his own
definition: if he doesn't stretch it enough, legitimate "prog" bands
might not get through. However, if he stretches it too much, then he starts down a "slippery slope" of allowing any band that just happened to record a "proggish" song or two (or even album or two) to be included.
For the record, I believe Max agrees with my basic qualification for a "prog" band: that the vast majority of their output clearly show a conscious, deliberate
approach to songwiting, execution and recording using most (if not
all) of the elements that most people would consider "prog
sensibilities." Again, individual definitions of
"prog" may differ on "specifics," but there are elements that the
vast majority of us would agree are essential to any
defintiion of "prog."
Peace. |
Yay, a big important person noticed me!!!
A few things. First, I understand that we'll never all agree to one
standard of what is progressive rock. Having said that, we must realize
that we can't take that mentality to the extreme... if we all woke up
tomorrow and decided that mariah carey was the standard of good prog,
would it be? "Progressive Rock" must have some sort
of definition or some sort of boundary, otherwise the words
"progressive rock" have no substance or meaning whatsoever. So, at some
point, some basic generalities concerning what prog is must be
established... if somebody joins the board and says that johnny cash is
prog, he has to be right or wrong by some standard,
whatever that may be. Maani's "basic qualifications" would sum this
sort of standard up, even though somebody may be able to propose a
better one. I hope you understand what I'm getting at... its a matter
of linguistics, really. If "apple" mean't whatever anybody wanted it to
mean, then we'd have no way of understanding what "apple" means.
Maybe my view of it is too "conservative" by some of your standards, but I'm trying my best to convey what I think.
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I bleed coffee. When I don't drink coffee, my veins run dry, and I shrivel up and die.
"Banco Del Mutuo Soccorso? Is that like the bank of Italian soccer death or something?" -my girlfriend
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