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avestin 
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 18 2005 Status: Offline Points: 12625 |
 Posted: April 22 2006 at 13:54 |
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I have not knowledge whatsoever in programming so I don't know what would be harder to implement. I agree with Mike on the non prog issue. I also think the specialist groups should handle the classifications into genres, otherwise it would be too chaotic (unless someone knows better and has an example to the contrary).
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21493 |
Posted: April 22 2006 at 13:47 |
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I use such an approach on my website - let all users determine a genre for an album, and the system displays the most used one. It's nice, but when you look at the results (www.ratingfreak.com) you see that it can end in chaos unless you really have MANY votes.
Also, it would be a rather abrupt change from a expert-controlled system to a completely democratic system.
About the genres: I guess you are talking about how to deal with the non-prog parts of the discographies. IMO the solution to that problem is simple:
Add a genre "non-prog". Those albums would definitely not be displayed on the front page. We can then always choose to add other genres later ... I know you want to be inclusive, but this should remain a prog website.
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M@X
Forum & Site Admin Group
Co-founder, Admin & Webmaster Joined: January 29 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 4049 |
Posted: April 22 2006 at 13:37 |
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Dont you think that well have to add a lot of new GENRE for album ?
Ex: Pop, Alternative, Death Metal , Dance, ... ? Tagging could solve the problem ? Only most used tag could be displayed .. more comments please, this discussion is interesting...  Edited by M@X - April 22 2006 at 13:37 |
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Prog On !
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21493 |
Posted: April 22 2006 at 13:36 |
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Another thing: Switching to tagging would mean MAJOR changes to the archives artist/album pages ... I don't think that's necessary, they're fine as they are. Adding genre selction for albums only requires minor changes to the database, and the album interfaces. Then the collabs can move the albums.
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21493 |
Posted: April 22 2006 at 13:34 |
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I like the idea, but I think it would be better to just add a genre selection for albums in addition to the genre selection for bands.
Tagging is nice, but also kind of chaotic. It might end up with some albums tagged as half a dozen categories ...
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oscar
Forum Groupie 
Joined: January 11 2006 Location: Norway Status: Offline Points: 74 |
Posted: April 22 2006 at 13:33 |
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genres is difficult, not at least subgenres in prog |
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Life is PROGRESSIVE
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M@X
Forum & Site Admin Group
Co-founder, Admin & Webmaster Joined: January 29 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 4049 |
Posted: April 22 2006 at 13:32 |
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Mike , any suggestion here ?
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Prog On !
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M@X
Forum & Site Admin Group
Co-founder, Admin & Webmaster Joined: January 29 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 4049 |
Posted: April 22 2006 at 13:32 |
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Why not ... ? or maybe all the members could do it , but Specialist Group could moderate them ?
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Prog On !
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avestin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 18 2005 Status: Offline Points: 12625 |
Posted: April 22 2006 at 13:27 |
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It is the best solution. Who will be doing the tagging? The different specialist groups?
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M@X
Forum & Site Admin Group
Co-founder, Admin & Webmaster Joined: January 29 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 4049 |
Posted: April 22 2006 at 13:27 |
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Don't remember that ...
 So I repeat my question as: MikeEnRegalia 6 months old Suggestion: How about TAGGING album and bands ? Edited by M@X - April 22 2006 at 13:31 |
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Prog On !
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21493 |
Posted: April 22 2006 at 13:22 |
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Please don't try to sell it as new, you rejected it 6 months ago. Edited by MikeEnRegalia - April 22 2006 at 13:25 |
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Peter
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: January 31 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 9669 |
Posted: April 22 2006 at 12:37 |
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 Yes!Bands, albums and even individual songs can encompass mutiple, so-called "categories."
These categories use words (open to individual interpretation) to try to define and delineate something that is apart from and beyond words, and which "lives" mostly in the emotional realm.
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
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parrymason
Forum Groupie
Joined: May 23 2005 Location: Latvia Status: Offline Points: 49 |
Posted: April 22 2006 at 12:27 |
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"Dark Prog" is the best for VDGG, I think. But then again, everything can be fit into multiple categories.
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M@X
Forum & Site Admin Group
Co-founder, Admin & Webmaster Joined: January 29 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 4049 |
Posted: April 22 2006 at 12:26 |
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Suggestion: How about TAGGING album and bands ?
Like last.fm , flickr, technorati... More about TAGGIN here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tags Instead of categorizing : tagging .. ? Edited by M@X - April 22 2006 at 12:26 |
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Prog On !
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Peter
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: January 31 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 9669 |
Posted: April 22 2006 at 12:24 |
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We already have too many very subjective, vague, even imaginary, "other genre-appropriating" categories.
Now we have yet another. Sigh.
It's all music, that's about all I know for sure. Music is patterns of sound, emotion -- words cannot "contain" or encapsulate it, or do it justice. Words, especially adjectives like "hard," "soft " "good," "bad," "best" "worst" and "progressive" are very much open to interpretation.
I don't like the categorizing of art, except in the broadest possible ways. The more hair-splitting categories and sub-genres, the more subjectivity, confusion, and argument.
I like the way big record stores do it -- prog is just put in with rock, alphabetically. (You can decide what "category" each artist belongs in, and arrange/record/think of your collection accordingly.) I don't like others to do this labelling for me. It is not intuitive -- I would not think to find GG in "hard" prog, nor do I (yet) know what the term is meant to encompass. In my CD rack (close to 1200 discs), prog is in with rock/pop, and Gentle Giant is in with other "G" artists. (Between Genesis and Green day, as it happens.)
Art is not science. It needs you to experience it, let it have its effect, and make it "come to life," and you are different than me. Just as each of us is unique, so, strictly speaking, is each artist unique; thus I find the narrow categorizing of art to be very problematical, and a big source of disagreement.  Edited by Peter Rideout - April 22 2006 at 12:40 |
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
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Fede
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: February 15 2006 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 216 |
Posted: April 22 2006 at 11:45 |
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I don't think that Van der Graaf Generator is hard prog. Maybe on some parts but they are symphonic prog.......
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oscar
Forum Groupie
Joined: January 11 2006 Location: Norway Status: Offline Points: 74 |
Posted: April 22 2006 at 10:07 |
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I think HARD TOO GET INTOO is very subjektive, so I dont like HARD PROG as a subgenre at all.. To me gentle giant was love at first listen due too the wonderful harmonies, instrumentally, and vocally
But they are challenging, , but that is subjective too...Symphonic prog is a broad sub-genre, and i think we should put them there. We can describe the music subjectively, and then the word hard can be used. That is my opinion |
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Life is PROGRESSIVE
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memowakeman
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 19 2005 Location: Mexico City Status: Offline Points: 13033 |
Posted: April 22 2006 at 09:51 |
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Progarchives is changing and progressing, new things are coming, good!
Edited by memowakeman - April 22 2006 at 09:51 |
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Follow me on twitter @memowakeman |
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Dick Heath
Special Collaborator
Jazz-Rock Specialist Joined: April 19 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 12818 |
Posted: April 22 2006 at 09:42 |
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Totally agree with such flexiblity. In that way any album by a band, that happens not to fit any one of our "Honest" labels of prog sub-genres (when other albums by the band do), then it is listed as "non-prog, but of perphiral interest" but shouldn't be reviewed.................. |
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Zargus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 08 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 3491 |
Posted: April 22 2006 at 07:16 |
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Well then we shuld have a Light prog category aswell dont you think with: Genesis, Yes, Pink Floyd and some other pop/prog bands.
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M@X wrote: