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micky View Drop Down
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Points: 46838 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2006 at 11:44
hmm... this thread got dug up didn't it..


Tony - see this started in April... any more luck getting into VdGG....I saw you mentioned Pawn Hearts granted  my opinion is a bit different from some here but is the opinion of one who is not a 'fan' of the group... I think Pawn Hearts really isn't THAT great an album... perhaps you're trying the wrong album...  H to He was the album that really grabbed me.
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Points: 8890 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2006 at 11:37
I got Pawn Hearts very early in my prog journey and I was amazed from my first play.  I didn't particularly like it at first, however.  It was just amazing how different and complex it was from anything else I had ever heard (until then, I had only been exposed to PF, Yes, Genesis, Rush, and ELP as far as prog goes).  After a couple listens I started to really love it and it was one of the albums that really inspired me to get into Progressive Rock.
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Points: 6336 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2006 at 11:31
Van der Graaf was probably the hardest band for me to get into...Hammills voice was one of the main facts, but it was really because...I found their songs so incredibly boring and long just for the sake of being long! I got "First generation" ( I even gave that album a one star review...which Im so ashamed of) and I remeber not being able to listen to "A plague of lighthouse keepers" more than...4 minutes and "Theme one" being the only song I could bare, not like, bare...
And like that it went on like...4 months, where I tried at least two times a month to listen to this album and always getting very angry and frustrated...and then one day click... I cant discrive it, it was just a sudden click...

The other day I bought "H to HE" and its clear that VDGG are already in my top 10 (even 5) of bands...



HAMMILLS VOICE RULESAngryAngryAngryAngryAngry
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Points: 89372 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2006 at 11:38
Indeed Friede, you'll be here hours and hours and hours... reviewing just one album!
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Points: 34 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2006 at 11:35

>>>>>>>>>>>Hamill's vocals are probably the worst of any prog singer I've heard.

 

Interesting opinion, to me,  Hammill's vocals are the best , not only prog, all  music.

Seriously, in the last 29 years, since the first time I heard him singing  (Wondering),   I still consider Hammill the best singer ever, including opera.

 

But, that,  it is just MY opinion.

 

Gabriel.

 



 
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Points: 398 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2006 at 08:52
Melody and Van der Graaf Generator are not mutually exclusive.
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Points: 20414 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2006 at 08:22

^^^^

Friede, this might just make an interesting article that you could post in the BLOG section

Seriously

 

Tony,

Do not worry too much, it took me over twenty years to really fall into VDGG. They are an acquired taste. But seeing the bands you are into(at least from my imperfect viewpoint), you are more into symphonic and melodic groups than VDGG or KC >> but  it is all a matter of taste, too

it is best you see a concert of them to understand why they are so peculiar-sounding. a lot of theior weird sound is due to Jackson's sax playing, you must see it to believe/understand it>>> Check out the Godbluff DVD especially the Belgian TV special of Plague of The Lighthouse Keeper.

let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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Points: 10063 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2006 at 08:20

General progressive music discussions		 In: Van der Graaf Generator
By: BaldFriede (April 10 2006 at 08:12) View Last Post		 6786 170445
Open Forum no new posts Prog Polls
Create polls on topics related to progressive music		 In: Levin, Lake or Squire??
By: Jeremy Bender (April 10 2006 at 07:57) View Last Post		 1976 57870
Open Forum new posts Recommendations/Listening To
Make recommendations about progressive rock music and related		 In: Van Der Graaf Generator
By: Sean Trane (April 10 2006 at 08:11)

 

same topic.

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Points: 10266 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2006 at 08:12
Originally posted by pero pero wrote:

Originally posted by Odd24 Odd24 wrote:

Originally posted by pero pero wrote:

Originally posted by Odd24 Odd24 wrote:

The song "Sleepwalkers" alone has more time signatures in it than the complete Bitches Brew sessions 4 CD Box by Miles Davis

 

Hey, you have my avatar....

Yes, now I notice it too ...Jethro Tull's "A passion play" is one of my favourite songs...

But I am also very impressed by what Peter Hammill produces with his band VDGG (I haven't heard his solo work yet). There is so much variety in his music, just like all the other great 70's prog bands.

Wait a minute.

I'm shure Baldfriede will explain everything about Hammil's solo albums.


If you have the patience to listen to the explanation of 40+ solo albums and a dozen VdGG records, I'll gladly hold a complete lecture on Hammill (with examples from all the albums). But I fear you will all run away screaming before I have really started.


BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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Tony Fisher View Drop Down
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Points: 967 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2006 at 08:02
Originally posted by pero pero wrote:

Originally posted by Tony Fisher Tony Fisher wrote:

Originally posted by laplace laplace wrote:



I tend to listen to VdGG mixed in with King Crimson, I find them to be mutually complimenting.


Interesting! King Crimson are the other major 70s band I don't like much, except for a couple of tracks on the first album.

Perhaps it's just the dark, avant-garde style of VDGG that puts me off. In the end, there is no good and bad; it's all just a matter of taste and opinion.

If you don't like VDGG and KC what do you like?

Genesis are also dark.



Genesis (who are only somewhat dark on Trespass), Camel, Strawbs, Mostly Autumn, Horslips, Gentle Giant, Tull, Floyd (after AHM), Gryphon, Renaissance, Wishbone Ash, BJH, The Enid and many more.

There's far more to prog than VDGG and KC, but I tend to pick up that many fans of these bands think that they are the be all and end all.

Notable recently was a group of raters who gave everything by these 2 bands 5*, then gave 1* to all Camel, Genesis, Tull and Floyd in an attempt to rig the charts. It was SO obvious.
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pero View Drop Down
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Points: 1242 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2006 at 07:58
Originally posted by Odd24 Odd24 wrote:

Originally posted by pero pero wrote:

Originally posted by Odd24 Odd24 wrote:

The song "Sleepwalkers" alone has more time signatures in it than the complete Bitches Brew sessions 4 CD Box by Miles Davis

 

Hey, you have my avatar....

Yes, now I notice it too ...Jethro Tull's "A passion play" is one of my favourite songs...

But I am also very impressed by what Peter Hammill produces with his band VDGG (I haven't heard his solo work yet). There is so much variety in his music, just like all the other great 70's prog bands.

Wait a minute.

I'm shure Baldfriede will explain everything about Hammil's solo albums.
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Points: 199 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2006 at 07:25

Originally posted by pero pero wrote:

Originally posted by Odd24 Odd24 wrote:

The song "Sleepwalkers" alone has more time signatures in it than the complete Bitches Brew sessions 4 CD Box by Miles Davis

 

Hey, you have my avatar....

Yes, now I notice it too ...Jethro Tull's "A passion play" is one of my favourite songs...

But I am also very impressed by what Peter Hammill produces with his band VDGG (I haven't heard his solo work yet). There is so much variety in his music, just like all the other great 70's prog bands.



Edited by Odd24
Right down the line
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pero View Drop Down
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Points: 1242 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2006 at 06:53
Originally posted by Odd24 Odd24 wrote:

The song "Sleepwalkers" alone has more time signatures in it than the complete Bitches Brew sessions 4 CD Box by Miles Davis

 

Hey, you have my avatar....
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Points: 199 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2006 at 06:47

The song "Sleepwalkers" alone has more time signatures in it than the complete Bitches Brew sessions 4 CD Box by Miles Davis

 
Right down the line
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pero View Drop Down
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Points: 1242 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2006 at 06:09

Originally posted by Tony Fisher Tony Fisher wrote:

Originally posted by laplace laplace wrote:



I tend to listen to VdGG mixed in with King Crimson, I find them to be mutually complimenting.


Interesting! King Crimson are the other major 70s band I don't like much, except for a couple of tracks on the first album.

Perhaps it's just the dark, avant-garde style of VDGG that puts me off. In the end, there is no good and bad; it's all just a matter of taste and opinion.

If you don't like VDGG and KC what do you like?

Genesis are also dark.
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Tony Fisher View Drop Down
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Points: 967 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2006 at 04:29
Originally posted by laplace laplace wrote:



I tend to listen to VdGG mixed in with King Crimson, I find them to be mutually complimenting.


Interesting! King Crimson are the other major 70s band I don't like much, except for a couple of tracks on the first album.

Perhaps it's just the dark, avant-garde style of VDGG that puts me off. In the end, there is no good and bad; it's all just a matter of taste and opinion.
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Fritha View Drop Down
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Points: 471 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2006 at 03:53
^James Blunt's vocals are much stranger, but he seems to be doing okay at the moment!  
I was made to love magic
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Points: 1485 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2006 at 23:24
Originally posted by The Lost Chord The Lost Chord wrote:

Originally posted by ken4musiq ken4musiq wrote:

Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:


Originally posted by The Lost Chord The Lost Chord wrote:


I love hammills vocals, though, sometimes they can get annoying and
weird but mostly he is very unique and awesome, but why does he have
to sing so visciously sometimes?  <SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">It
doesnt go with the songs sometimes i feel.</SPAN>WEIGHT: bold" smileys/smiley5.gif">


On the contrary, it goes exactly with the songs. Just read the
lyrics! He only raises his voice to the peak when the music reaches a peak
too.


 


I'm not a big VDGG fan, yet anyway.  (But I know I will be.) His vocals
are quite extaordinary and the odd mellodramatic flare seems to really
enhance the alienation spoken about in some of the lyrics.



 


Yeah, I love Hammills vocals, but I just dont see something like "White
Hammer" working well at some points.  He is screaming and viscious
about everything in the song, IT DOESNT HAVE TO BE VISCIOUS!! The
spanich inquisition was evil and all and stupid, but the first part of the
song works fine, with the simple errie melody and all...the whole anger
part just doesnt work for me.



I think the angry vocals work perfectly with "White Hammer." Hammill's
vocals are incredible in my opinion but I do see why someone wouldn't
like them. They are very strange.
One likes to believe
In the freedom of music
But glittering prizes
And endless Compromises
Shatter the illusion
Of integrity
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VanderGraafKommandöh View Drop Down
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Points: 89372 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2006 at 23:09
But it's an anti-witchcraft (Look up Malleus Malificarum) song and one of my favourites I might add, one of the few tracks not performed live as well.  It kind of needs to be dark, loud and scary.  He never over does it for me, he can be relaxed to of course, just listen to Refugees, House With No Door and a few others, they're not really over exuberant at all, beautiful songs infact.

Edited by Geck0 - September 07 2006 at 03:14
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The Lost Chord View Drop Down
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Points: 1907 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2006 at 23:01
Originally posted by ken4musiq ken4musiq wrote:

Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

Originally posted by The Lost Chord The Lost Chord wrote:

I love hammills vocals, though, sometimes they can get annoying and weird but mostly he is very unique and awesome, but why does he have to sing so visciously sometimes?  It doesnt go with the songs sometimes i feel.


On the contrary, it goes exactly with the songs. Just read the lyrics! He only raises his voice to the peak when the music reaches a peak too.

 

I'm not a big VDGG fan, yet anyway.  (But I know I will be.) His vocals are quite extaordinary and the odd mellodramatic flare seems to really enhance the alienation spoken about in some of the lyrics.

 

Yeah, I love Hammills vocals, but I just dont see something like "White Hammer" working well at some points.  He is screaming and viscious about everything in the song, IT DOESNT HAVE TO BE VISCIOUS!! The spanich inquisition was evil and all and stupid, but the first part of the song works fine, with the simple errie melody and all...the whole anger part just doesnt work for me.
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