ELP top 3???

Progger wrote: The only album that can be compared to BSS is CTTE!

I'd reckon The Best Of Daniel O'Donnell beats BSS by a mile. It's absolute pants. The worst prog album.

Their decent albums are:
Trilogy 3.5*
Tarkus 3.5*
Pictures 3*

and the rest is not worth rating. Trace did this sort of thing earlier and so much better.

ELP are in many ways more infamous than they are loved. Their reputation as a prog giant is mostly based on how outlandish and successful they were, not on the quality of the music itself. Nowadays a lot of their music can come across as a bit... (dare I say this?) ...tacky. >>

 

Emo's legacy is marred by the fact that the musical world was not ready for him.  He tried to take rock to the next level, fully integrating it with an orchestra, as on Pirates, like Bersntein had done before him. He was not the first but he was the one who constantly pushed the envelop to lessen the gap between rock and the symphony.  Rock composers like Emo and Zappa got a lot of flack from orchestra musicians for their music.  I don't know how other faired in that regard.

Emos piano concerto is very solid in its creation of ideas, but he lacks the technique to write a good concerto. (Rachmaninoff's first is not that interesting either.) He's written a second but cannot get it performed.

Edited by ken4musiq

richardh wrote: ^ Re Ivans comments, Greg Lake actually sings Lucky Man live superbly.When I saw ELP live in 1992 that was the highlight of the show.The studio version was recorded very early on when Greg was still defining his vocal style. Yes Richard, his voice is superb and I said it many times, probably the most beautiful vocal range in the market. But I sill feel that his performance of Lucky Man in the self titled album lacks of the emotion that the lyrics have. I would say the same thing about Ces't La Vie, or Closer to Believing, two songs that leave me cold. That's another thing that reminds me of John Wetton who has a very similar voice, but John is even less emotive. I reckon his best singing in on Trilogy.''Emotionless'' NO! Listen to the opening to the track Trilogy,From The Beginning or The Endless Enigma Pts 1 and 2.Great stuff from Mr Lake and plenty of emotion. The problem with his singing on some ELP albums like say BSS though is that he was singing 'non emotional' sci fi lyrics(KE9 in particular).There it is a slightly different story but you have to put the singing in the context of the music IMO. The problem with Greg is that he plays with Keith, EMO is a natural showman, and Greg isn't, Lake is a serious sober vocalist, but he leaves the showmanship to the keyboardist. IMO you can add emotion to Sci Fi, take for example Ashley Holt, a guy who's voice is not a shadow of Greg's, but when he sings some passages of No Earthly Connection or Journey to the Centre of the Earth, he's absolutely emotional despite both are Sci Fi albums. But yes you're right, Greg is emotional in some songs like Lend your Love to Me Tonight which is sung with a lot of strenght and drama.  But has a trouble with wmotion in others, lke Lucky Man and From the Beginning (Here I disagree with you), that's why I said "A BIT" emotionless.

Iván

Sometimes I think that ELP type keyboard prog music rocks more than ELP themselves!

Anyway, albuns like Trilogy or Brain Salad Surgery can´t be beaten!!

 

Progger wrote: Gianthogweed wrote: Genesis had seven great albums (one of which was a double), and all of King Crimson's albums are good (though I don't think any of them reached the calibre of Yes or Genesis in their prime). Genesis never made one great album. They made albums with some great songs on them but lots of filler also. Yes never made one album with filler in the 70's. I will also repeat that the fact that the production on every Gabriel Genesis album was not top notch which in itself does not make any album a masterpiece!

Progger, I respect TOTALLY your opinion (even not agreeing with it), but why not write before the sentence the abbrevs. IMO or IMHO, for instance? The way you wrote the above text it seems "the truth above all the truthes" instead of simply 'your truth'. Thank you!

Edited by Atkingani

^ Re Ivans comments, Greg Lake actually sings Lucky Man live superbly.When I saw ELP live in 1992 that was the highlight of the show.The studio version was recorded very early on when Greg was still defining his vocal style.

I reckon his best singing in on Trilogy.''Emotionless'' NO! Listen to the opening to the track Trilogy,From The Beginning or The Endless Enigma Pts 1 and 2.Great stuff from Mr Lake and plenty of emotion. The problem with his singing on some ELP albums like say BSS though is that he was singing 'non emotional' sci fi lyrics(KE9 in particular).There it is a slightly different story but you have to put the singing in the context of the music IMO.

Edited by richardh

micky wrote: ivan_2068 wrote:   Greg Lake: Execlent vocal range, but a bit emotionless IMO, as a bassist and guitarist he's not espectacular, great songwritter with weakness for soft poppy ballads. Iván Very well said, and agree with 88.9% of your post wholeheartedly however..... say what you will about the at times HORRID nature of ELP lyrics, but the messenger... come on.  Emotionless?  don't know about you,  but I feel the aggression in his vocals in songs like Knife's Edge, and Living Sin (two off the top of my head).  I can 'feel' his laughter and humor in the songs typically called the throwaway tracks on ELP albums like Are You Ready Eddy, and Benny the Bouncer. His emotional vocals helped spawn the 'Ladies of the Lake'.   Probably along with Hammill the greatest  of the prog vocalists.  In any case, the vocals are rarely if EVER mentioned as a weakness of ELP, the lyrics though are another matter.....

Thanks Micky, and I agree with you, that's why I said A BIT EMOTIONLESS, in some songs he surely adds a special touch, but not in all.

Take for example Lucky Man, the ending is very dramatic, the rich kid with all the advantages dies defending his country and his king, but Greg doesn't show any emotion, almost static from start to end.

Imagine how descriptive you can get while narrating that "the blood ran and he died". Here Greg losts a great chance to add drama, all the emotion is added by Keith's Moog that is almost as a cry of pain and loneliness.

And you have a lot of songs like this one, mostly on the ballads Greg prefers to keep a soft poppy melody instead of adding emotion. Ces't La Vie is a great example, for God's sake all the sadness is added by the orchestra and the violins and Greg doesn't make a single inflection in his voice.

The terrible thing is that as you mention he can be emotive, he proved it in other songs, but sometimes he doesn't even make the try, and he had one of the most beautiful and strong vocal ranges I ever heard.

Iván

Gianthogweed wrote: ELP was huge in the early 70's, but they ran out of steam very quickly.  Bands like Jethro Tull, Yes, Genesis and King Crimson continued to make great albums, and have a lot more consitently good material.  ELP had those first four studio albums, and 2 or 3 live albums.  The rest ranges form Okay, to horrible.  Jethro Tull put out consistently good albums all through th seventies, Yes had at least four great albums and a bunch of really good albums, Genesis had seven great albums (one of which was a double), and all of King Crimson's albums are good (though I don't think any of them reached the calibre of Yes or Genesis in their prime).

interesting take on that.....   I know many fans and do myself that enjoy the two works albums and the tour that supported it was on the scale that most groups could only dream of (or have nightmares hahahha) about.  News for you.. ELP was huge into the late 70's after which ELP died and Genesis became something that we best not discuss here in these august pages.  If running out of steam quickly means the 7 year period that corresponded with the 'golden age of prog'  then so be it hahahah. As far as great albums... yeah yeah yeah.. all the Genesis albums were great... there are people who think the Backstreet Boys put out great albums, what does that prove?  Taste is personal, this is thread was raised in the historical context and short of Floyd, Crimson, and Yes, none hold a candle to ELP in that regard.  Japan, Italy, Germany, and of course the U.S were places that ELP left indelible marks on... .they were amoung the foremost faces of prog.  Responsible for many of the sterotypes that grace our beloved genre (God bless them hahahah)

Legoman wrote:

Definately a lot of good points in there, man.  (By the way, the Da Vinci Code was written by a woman)

Yeah, I see where you are coming from and all but I still don't feel they did well as a group.  Never did they have the collaboration that Yes or Tull had.  Just a couple of good players in a austentacious group.  Singularly they are fantastic and deserve their fame but together... eh... nothing special.
[/QUOTE]

Sorry, Legoman, but according to this website the author (Dan Brown) must be a man...

http://www.danbrown.com/

BTW, I started to read the book but never ended.  Maybe the translation was not good enough.

Edited by Atkingani

No, Shut up!  ELP rocks!  Buy all of their (early) albums!

<---luckyman_123