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Joren 
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 07 2004
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 6667
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 Posted: February 19 2004 at 15:37 |
 corbet wrote:
There is absolutely no place for humor in music. The important themes tackled by the master progressive musicians cannot be approached lightly; even less can the arduous task of comprehending their legacy be undertaken with even the slightest hint of frivolity. When I am at a King Crimson symposium, trying to take notes, what is one to do when disturbed by that loathesome noise which is laughter? I can only shake my head and hope that future generations leave behind this notion of "funny" and return to the ponderous work of musical contemplation. |
Come on! Who're you trying to fool? What's wrong with a bit of humour? You should really listen to Supersister's (a seventies Dutch band) 'Wow (The Intelligent Song)', from the album 'Superstarshine; . That song is so funny! And still, the music is great.
There doesn't have to be humour everywhere, but a little fun has bever harmed anybody!
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Vibrationbaby
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 13 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 6898
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Posted: February 19 2004 at 13:53 |
Man! Prog is funny without even trying. When Robert Fripp says, " This band is not meant to be enjoyed " or "some music came along that only King Crimson Could play", that's funny in itself  ( Is corbet for real or is he just trying out some Devil's advocacy .) Whether Fripp considers himself to be a funny guy or not, I don't know, but I've got more than a few laughs out of the guy over the years. When he comes out and greets the audience by saying things like, " good evening hippies" I don't think he's taking himself or the audience too seriously. Particularily at King Crimson gigs (the ones I've seen as well as the ones I've heard on record and CD) you always have a guy yelling out a song request like," FRACTURE!" and then somone else yells out, "CAT FOOD!" then there's the whole peanut gallery yelling out everything from "SCHIZOID MAN!" to" ELEPHANT TALK!" and they KNOW there's not a chance in hell that they're going to hear them. I go to a lot of classical music concerts and recitals because my wife teaches music and you don't witness that sort of behaviour at these events. Can you imagine someone screaming out, " MOZART FLUTE AND HARP CONCERTO IN C MINOR!" In between selections. What I'm trying to say that there is humour in anything if you try to find it and I'm sure that's what Rob Reiner did when concieving the film Spinal Tap ( which is one of my favourite films ) and I'm sure that many of his ideas were inspired by excesses and eccentricities of bands from prog-rock genres.
Edited by Vibrationbaby
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Jim Garten
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin & Razor Guru
Joined: February 02 2004
Location: South England
Status: Offline
Points: 14693
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Posted: February 19 2004 at 06:46 |
corbet wrote:
There is absolutely no place for humor in music. The important themes tackled by the master progressive musicians cannot be approached lightly; even less can the arduous task of comprehending their legacy be undertaken with even the slightest hint of frivolity. When I am at a King Crimson symposium, trying to take notes, what is one to do when disturbed by that loathesome noise which is laughter? I can only shake my head and hope that future generations leave behind this notion of "funny" and return to the ponderous work of musical contemplation. |
There is of course this point of view - I personally grew a goatee beard several years ago for the express purpose to be stroked, whilst frowning knowingly, and saying "HHHmmmmmmm" during a particularly challenging session of Frippertronics (although this does necessitate my assistant having to hold my notebook)
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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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corbet
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 01 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 101
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Posted: February 19 2004 at 06:20 |
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There is absolutely no place for humor in music. The important themes tackled by the master progressive musicians cannot be approached lightly; even less can the arduous task of comprehending their legacy be undertaken with even the slightest hint of frivolity. When I am at a King Crimson symposium, trying to take notes, what is one to do when disturbed by that loathesome noise which is laughter? I can only shake my head and hope that future generations leave behind this notion of "funny" and return to the ponderous work of musical contemplation.
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Joren
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 07 2004
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 6667
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Posted: February 19 2004 at 06:16 |
Before I listened to Zappa's music I couldn't imagine that there existed funny music that was also GOOD. I think humour belongs everywhere, but it's good that there's also serious music!
By the way: just think about satanic black metal bands like Mercyful Fate. Their image is quite funny too!
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Paco Fox
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 10 2004
Location: Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 500
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Posted: February 19 2004 at 05:48 |
Jim Garten wrote:
I Paco mentioned that you cannot always take Wakeman seriously - I should think not! He may be a truly gifted musician, but he is also a geniunely funny man; from his solo spots in Yes (check out Yessongs for proof), to his stand up comedy routines I've seen him do during his own band's shows....... |
There's also a very good piano tour DVD in wich the comedy routines are specially funny. I appreciate a lot certain changes of mood. For example, Wakeman starts talkning about how it was annoying everyone making a millenium album, millenium concerts, etc, to end up saying he ended up doing one... and after that (wich, trust me, sounds very funny in Wakeman's voice) he goes one playing a gorgeous, vey beautiful piano piece. These contrasts are great in my opinion.
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Jim Garten
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin & Razor Guru
Joined: February 02 2004
Location: South England
Status: Offline
Points: 14693
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Posted: February 19 2004 at 04:53 |
I personally think that humour is essential in all walks of life, and this must include music in all its forms.
Paco mentioned that you cannot always take Wakeman seriously - I should think not! He may be a truly gifted musician, but he is also a geniunely funny man; from his solo spots in Yes (check out Yessongs for proof), to his stand up comedy routines I've seen him do during his own band's shows.......
ELP's forays into humour have never detracted from their other work; in my mind they enhance it by adding a different dynamic to otherwise very intense albums; a breathing space, if you like - ear candy to allow your brain to recover. The same could be said of 'Willow Farm', but although this section is humorous when taken out of context, the lyrics deal with the transition of physical form, an essential link to the closing section (pretentious, moi  ??).
As far as Zappa is concerned, apart from his vast body of serious works (which deserve a thread, if not a forum of their own), he was a first rate satirist, and used his humour, music & band to open the soft underbelly of American society, to excellent effect - I dont think the UK has ever had an equivalent to him, the closest we come (I believe) being the Bonzo Dog Band in the late 60's parodying English society's values (Viv Stanshall RIP  ).
My word, this is all getting very serious 
Bottom line being, if you dont have humour, you dont have life....... to prove this, a little joke:
Q - How many surrealists does it take to change a lightbulb?
A - A Fish
By the way, Paco - I was at the Sabbath gig in 1983 which I think inspired Spinal Tap - Reading Festival, Ian Gillan on vocals, almost a parody of themselves - the whole stage set up as a giant Stonehenge monolith; mind you, I don't remember any dancing dwarves......although this may have lightened the mood on what was an appalling show!! Direct support that day was a young band called Marillion, who opened with Grendel, joked with the audience throughout, played a storming 90 minutes & were still being called on to return when Sabbath took the stage, to Iommi's obvious annoyance...
Edited by Jim Garten
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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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Paco Fox
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 10 2004
Location: Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 500
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Posted: February 19 2004 at 03:56 |
I laugh at prog a lot. And I have to admit that not always at humorous songs made intentionally that way. Come on, there's lot of cheese in prog!. Me and other proghole friends usually mock a lot of moments, but in a tongue in the cheeck way, with no malice. You really can't take always seriously people like Rick Wakeman!.
As for humorous songs on purpose, well, don't tell me 'Hocus Pocus' isn't a) funny, b) a really catchy song and c) a prog rock masterpiece. I also love 'Down on the Farm', wich is much maligned by Camel fans. I love Camel because of its passion, and the very moving musical phrases. But I enjoy this song a lot, even more than, let's say, most of the non-moving, non funny songs on 'The Single Factor'.
You have to mock a bit of what you like (I absolutly enjoy 'Stonehenge' parody in Spinal Tap). And sometimes its better not adopting the over-serious pose of prog fans in the 70s. I was last year in a Caravan gig, and nobody was jumping of singing along. Most of the people were just listening still, and they really didn't seem to be enjoying themselves. After the concert, we went to talk to Pye Hastings, and he told us he liked to see the audience cheering, jumping and air-guitaring. The intellectual behaviour could better be left at home, when listening to records.
Regards
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Redstar
Forum Newbie
Joined: February 16 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 61
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Posted: February 19 2004 at 00:25 |
An excellent question. My answer is; it all depends on the context.
There is the point of view that songs like 'Benny' &'Willow Farm' drop a bit of silliness into otherwise fine works. The thing is; these whimsical songs are very much products of their time - even more so than the rest of the music surrounding them. They're not too much different than the multitude of silly little British pop ditties that were flying around at the same time; only reason they stick out to us is their out-of-place context within prog music.
So, that's why it's there...as to wether it should be there; I think there's something to be said for trying to bring a little humor once in a while into a genre that tends toward seriousness. Fripp once said something to the effect of backstage antics occuring as an attempt 'to inject some levity into a band situation which tended toward gravity'. This rarely applied to his music, but when it did, such as Elephant Talk or even Ladies of the Road, I enjoy it immensely.
Humor also can allow both the listener & musician to let one's hair down a bit more, so to speak; if you're not taking the idea of creating some grandiose lyrical epic so seriously, you can just get on with playing some damn fine music. This is the main aspect of the Canterbury school that appeals to me.
On a third note, I find the use of specifically Anglocentric humor, by Genesis in particular, to be one of the most delightful aspects of their music. The obscure british refrences scattered throughout Selling England might be off-putting to some, but to me they add a wonderful period flavor to the piece, and only endear me more to the time & place from which this great music originated.
So, in short, yes.
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Peter
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 9669
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Posted: February 19 2004 at 00:04 |
 The immortal Saint Zappa wondered "does humour belong in music?," and how could we do otherwise? Does humour belong in prog? Does "Willow Farm" belong on "Supper's Ready;" do "Benny the Bouncer" or "The Sheriff" strike a sour note with you? I say bring on the humour, I've got room for wit in my life and my music! What do you guys (especially Danbo, Dude, & Jim) think? Should Zappa be here? How about the Ruttles? Is prog less pretentious when it can laugh at its own pretentions? Examples?
Or should we don our hairshirts, and remember the dour words of a certain Mr. Fripp: "We are not a band to be enjoyed."
Discuss.
(If you like , we can just talk about Frank.)
 PS to Jim: That's MISS Ann Elk to you! "Still no sign of land: how long is it?"
(Stupid git, you've spoiled the atmosphere now!")
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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Does Humour Belong in Prog?
