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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
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Points: 46838
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Posted: March 05 2006 at 08:43 |
ivan_2068 wrote:
dima_olkov wrote:
Sometimes I fail to understand Band Admission Team logic.
If you consider ELO to be prog-related so
(I know it has been discussed lots of times but still!!)
In first place don't blame the Band
Admission team (From which I'm not part), a well intentioned member
with clearence to add bands added ELO despite it has been rejected in
many polls and threads by the vast majority of the members.
According to the politics of the site a band that is here won't be deleted, so "consumatum est", they are here to stay despite most of us don't agree.
good
thing the majority don't dictate things around here isn't it
hahahha. Some people have different notions of what is and is not
prog... if their views are not represented what do you have here
Ivan... a site not for fans of prog... but a site for fans with narrow
views of what is and is not prog. Some bands are enough in
that grey area that they should be included.. like ELO... some aren't
and should not... like Zeppelin. It's up to to the Band Admission
team to decide.... not these majority of voters you keep
referring to.
WHERE IS ZEPPELIN???????
Many many people agree with this...
I may agree or not, I'm still not
sure, I always seen Led Zeppelin as a Hard Rock/Early Metal band,
not as Prog, but the argument you use is lame, the fact that
an IMO non Prog band like ELO has been added, doesn't mean we have
to use them as excuse to add bands which are not 100% Prog.
Why do you guys see Prog' as the grand
award???? A band or music is good despite the genre, Led Zeppelin is an
icon of hard rock, here they will be added as Prog related. Zep's music
will be equally good if they are included or not.
Two mistakes don't make a correct solution.
Iván
couldn't
agree with that more (other than your ELO references hahahah) Each band
should be judged individually... not in relation to others.
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DallasBryan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 23 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3323
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Posted: March 05 2006 at 01:49 |
early ELO is progressive rock, Led Zeppelin, Queen
and Deep Purple are early Hard Rock.
No Answer and Eldorado at least are mostly
progressive albums. Afterwards they became very
commerical, but so did Genesis. Cant blame Jeff for
following the money, after all, musical freedom was
gone by the late 70's anyway. Many other bands
should have followed instead of changing their
output to recording industry standards and creating a
bunch of junk, commercial junk or progressive junk,
whats the difference?
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: March 05 2006 at 00:00 |
dima_olkov wrote:
Sometimes I fail to understand Band Admission Team logic.
If you consider ELO to be prog-related so
(I know it has been discussed lots of times but still!!)
In first place don't blame the Band Admission team (From which I'm not part), a well intentioned member with clearence to add bands added ELO despite it has been rejected in many polls and threads by the vast majority of the members.
According to the politics of the site a band that is here won't be deleted, so "consumatum est", they are here to stay despite most of us don't agree.
WHERE IS ZEPPELIN???????
Many many people agree with this...
I may agree or not, I'm still not sure, I always seen Led Zeppelin as a Hard Rock/Early Metal band, not as Prog, but the argument you use is lame, the fact that an IMO non Prog band like ELO has been added, doesn't mean we have to use them as excuse to add bands which are not 100% Prog.
Why do you guys see Prog' as the grand award???? A band or music is good despite the genre, Led Zeppelin is an icon of hard rock, here they will be added as Prog related. Zep's music will be equally good if they are included or not.
Two mistakes don't make a correct solution.
Iván |
Edited by ivan_2068
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
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Posted: March 04 2006 at 14:37 |
Tony R wrote:
ELDORADO sounds like a poor-man's 70's Sgt Pepper to me.I've just listened to it on Napster.
Of course that does not preclude it from being on Prog Archives,but
at times it does seem far removed from what one would normally imagine
Prog Rock to me.
However,they haven't been added as a Prog Rock band and we should remember that when judging their inclusion.
Now I can get "I Cant Get It Out Of My Head" out my head....![](smileys/smiley36.gif) |
that's where I was rather pleased to see you all put them on...
prog isn't just about complex, 20 minute longs, instrumental
wankfests... those are characteristics... not requirements hahahhah.
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979
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Posted: March 04 2006 at 14:35 |
ELDORADO sounds like a poor-man's 70's Sgt Pepper to me.I've just listened to it on Napster.
Of course that does not preclude it from being on Prog Archives,but at times it does seem far removed from what one would normally imagine Prog Rock to me.
However,they haven't been added as a Prog Rock band and we should remember that when judging their inclusion.
Now I can get "I Cant Get It Out Of My Head" out my head....![](smileys/smiley36.gif)
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
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Posted: March 04 2006 at 14:30 |
Sean Trane wrote:
As for ELO 2 , just because they added the Fifth's intro to a Chuck Berry RnR number does not make it prog![](smileys/smiley2.gif)
But the album is still good, just much simpler than the debut, and they have a hard time digesting Wood's departure
Thanks for the responses![](smileys/smiley2.gif) |
I figured that was coming ![](smileys/smiley2.gif) though
taking those cellos and violins, along with a nice intro like that,
into a Chuck Berry RnR number makes it prog to me. Then
again I have a rather broad notion of what is prog and is not...
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20410
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Posted: March 04 2006 at 14:16 |
micky wrote:
bluetailfly wrote:
Sean Trane wrote:
Come on guys , ![](smileys/smiley5.gif)
Argue with me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![](smileys/smiley7.gif) ![](smileys/smiley2.gif)
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You want an argument? I'll argue with you...
I think "El Dorado" is 100% prog rock ("art rock" to be specific), not 70%.
There! Take that!
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hahahah... me too..
I'd like to hear the 30% of ELO 2 that isn't prog.. granted it may not be the best prog ever done. Lord knows I agree about the horrid quality of the recording... especially Lynne's vocals. But that was a 100% prog album.
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Great Two Arguments![](smileys/smiley32.gif) ![](smileys/smiley32.gif) ![](smileys/smiley2.gif)
I will re-listen to Eldorado this week for ithas been over 20 years I heard it last , I rented it from the library and I might just review that percentage>>> not saying in which direction , though![](smileys/smiley36.gif)
As for ELO 2 , just because they added the Fifth's intro to a Chuck Berry RnR number does not make it prog![](smileys/smiley2.gif)
But the album is still good, just much simpler than the debut, and they have a hard time digesting Wood's departure
Thanks for the responses![](smileys/smiley2.gif)
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let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
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Posted: March 03 2006 at 18:35 |
bluetailfly wrote:
Sean Trane wrote:
Come on guys , ![](smileys/smiley5.gif)
Argue with me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![](smileys/smiley7.gif) ![](smileys/smiley2.gif)
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You want an argument? I'll argue with you...
I think "El Dorado" is 100% prog rock ("art rock" to be specific), not 70%.
There! Take that! |
hahahah... me too..
I'd like to hear the 30% of ELO 2 that isn't prog.. granted it may not
be the best prog ever done. Lord knows I agree about the horrid
quality of the recording... especially Lynne's vocals. But that
was a 100% prog album.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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bluetailfly
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 28 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1383
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Posted: March 03 2006 at 11:51 |
Sean Trane wrote:
Come on guys , ![](smileys/smiley5.gif)
Argue with me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![](smileys/smiley7.gif) ![](smileys/smiley2.gif)
|
You want an argument? I'll argue with you...
I think "El Dorado" is 100% prog rock ("art rock" to be specific), not 70%.
There! Take that!
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"The red polygon's only desire / is to get to the blue triangle."
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20410
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Posted: March 03 2006 at 05:50 |
Come on guys , ![](smileys/smiley5.gif)
Argue with me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![](smileys/smiley7.gif) ![](smileys/smiley2.gif)
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let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword
|
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20410
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Posted: March 02 2006 at 04:13 |
bluetailfly wrote:
Sean Trane wrote:
For all the disbelievers:
ELECTRIC LIGHT ORCHESTRA* - Electric Light Orchestra (No Answer) Review (Permanent link) by Hugues Chantraine @ 2:43:44 AM EST, 2/28/2006 SPECIAL COLLABORATION
— 4,5 stars really!!!!
With its ridiculous title coming from a complete cross-Atlantic misunderstanding (the album got named after the “no answer” response to the US label wondering on the album title), ELO’s first album is one of the hardest album to get into due to the poor sound and muddy production, but it is much worth the patience as the music is definitely prog with its heavy classical music instrumentation ala Eleanor Rigby (just listen to Look At Me Now to get a peak into the album’s key), but unfortunately too often disregarded due to their later almost disco-like career of the late 70’s.
Many of the band’s harder edged sounds are coming from Roy Wood’s mad musical ideas (Wood was the man behind The Move – one of the craziest psych groups around the late 60’s) while Jeff Lynne (who came from Idle Race) was more Beatles- inspired. One of the most endearing musical characteristics of ELO’s first two albums are the Renaissance influences, much the same way Gryphon was also greatly under the spell of. Just listen to Battle Of Marston Moor or their surprise hit 10538 Overture, just to get an idea. Marston is an astounding piece of music every proghead must listen, while First Movement is reminiscent of Focus’s Sylvia or House Of The King. Mr Radio is the typically Beatles-influenced Lynne track but again with a much proggier twist. Manhattan Rumble starts off as a sombre war march and is another superb and instrumental track while Queen Of The Hours is yet another highlight with again Roy wood doing the bundle of the instrument playing (he handles almost all the classical instrument bar the odd horn and the violin. The album closes on a minor composition, but cannot stop the open-minded progheads to think that this might just be an essential album.
The songwriting is almost divided in half (Lynne 5 to Wood’s 4) but clearly on the arrangement’s side, Wood was the man behind the album and Lynne’s poppier tracks are heavily infested by Wood’s instrumentation.
Weirdly enough, Wood who had worked so hard and against all odds to form this group will leave the group after this debut album, to found his RW’s Wizzard (a rockier Renaissance music group), leaving Lynne take care of the band and ELO will have a long and varied career with many highlights, but also some disgustingly commercial success. To all progheads dismissing ELO, they’d better listen to this album to swallow back their words in complete shame. Much worth its fourth star and even another half one.
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Yes, I absolutely agree with this. This LP is some of the best, most innovative, most eye-openingly varied and creative prog rock music period. ELO's early LPs can stand with the best art rock (or whatever subgenre of prog you wish to use) ever composed. ELO is not prog related. Their music is progressive rock, regardless of how commercial their later music became.
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HOWEVER:
WARNING: even remastered, this debut and its follow-up need an excellent stereo system!! Avoid the car stereo or the computer or even a ghetto blaster or a midi stereo. It needs the real stuff to unfold its brute beauty.
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let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword
|
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20410
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Posted: March 02 2006 at 04:11 |
I'll get this thread out of this forum , simply misplaced![](smileys/smiley5.gif)
But as far as ELO's prog contents, I would say that:
their first album is 100%,
their Second is 70%, ,
Third Day is 70%,
Eldorado is 70%,
Face The Music is 40%
New World Record and Out Of The Blue are 20% but by this time they had been taken over by the disco craze, but this disco thing influences on their work will not occur until after OOTB
Edited by Sean Trane
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let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword
|
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bluetailfly
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 28 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1383
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Posted: March 01 2006 at 13:00 |
Peter wrote:
Eventually, all artists will be added, I'm sure....![Ermm](https://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley24.gif)
Just kidding -- or am I? ![Stern Smile](https://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley22.gif)
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Yes, that does seem to be the trend, but nonetheless, ELO belongs in PA, and not just as "prog related."
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"The red polygon's only desire / is to get to the blue triangle."
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Peter
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 9669
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Posted: March 01 2006 at 12:52 |
Eventually, all artists will be added, I'm sure....![Ermm](https://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley24.gif)
Just kidding -- or am I? ![Stern Smile](https://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley22.gif)
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy.
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bluetailfly
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 28 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1383
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Posted: March 01 2006 at 11:58 |
Sean Trane wrote:
For all the disbelievers:
ELECTRIC LIGHT ORCHESTRA* - Electric Light Orchestra (No Answer) Review (Permanent link) by Hugues Chantraine @ 2:43:44 AM EST, 2/28/2006 SPECIAL COLLABORATION
— 4,5 stars really!!!!
With its ridiculous title coming from a complete cross-Atlantic misunderstanding (the album got named after the “no answer” response to the US label wondering on the album title), ELO’s first album is one of the hardest album to get into due to the poor sound and muddy production, but it is much worth the patience as the music is definitely prog with its heavy classical music instrumentation ala Eleanor Rigby (just listen to Look At Me Now to get a peak into the album’s key), but unfortunately too often disregarded due to their later almost disco-like career of the late 70’s.
Many of the band’s harder edged sounds are coming from Roy Wood’s mad musical ideas (Wood was the man behind The Move – one of the craziest psych groups around the late 60’s) while Jeff Lynne (who came from Idle Race) was more Beatles- inspired. One of the most endearing musical characteristics of ELO’s first two albums are the Renaissance influences, much the same way Gryphon was also greatly under the spell of. Just listen to Battle Of Marston Moor or their surprise hit 10538 Overture, just to get an idea. Marston is an astounding piece of music every proghead must listen, while First Movement is reminiscent of Focus’s Sylvia or House Of The King. Mr Radio is the typically Beatles-influenced Lynne track but again with a much proggier twist. Manhattan Rumble starts off as a sombre war march and is another superb and instrumental track while Queen Of The Hours is yet another highlight with again Roy wood doing the bundle of the instrument playing (he handles almost all the classical instrument bar the odd horn and the violin. The album closes on a minor composition, but cannot stop the open-minded progheads to think that this might just be an essential album.
The songwriting is almost divided in half (Lynne 5 to Wood’s 4) but clearly on the arrangement’s side, Wood was the man behind the album and Lynne’s poppier tracks are heavily infested by Wood’s instrumentation.
Weirdly enough, Wood who had worked so hard and against all odds to form this group will leave the group after this debut album, to found his RW’s Wizzard (a rockier Renaissance music group), leaving Lynne take care of the band and ELO will have a long and varied career with many highlights, but also some disgustingly commercial success. To all progheads dismissing ELO, they’d better listen to this album to swallow back their words in complete shame. Much worth its fourth star and even another half one.
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Yes, I absolutely agree with this. This LP is some of the best, most innovative, most eye-openingly varied and creative prog rock music period. ELO's early LPs can stand with the best art rock (or whatever subgenre of prog you wish to use) ever composed. ELO is not prog related. Their music is progressive rock, regardless of how commercial their later music became.
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"The red polygon's only desire / is to get to the blue triangle."
|
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20410
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Posted: March 01 2006 at 11:34 |
For all the disbelievers:
ELECTRIC LIGHT ORCHESTRA* - Electric Light Orchestra (No Answer) Review (Permanent link) by Hugues Chantraine @ 2:43:44 AM EST, 2/28/2006 SPECIAL COLLABORATION
— 4,5 stars really!!!!
With its ridiculous title coming from a complete cross-Atlantic misunderstanding (the album got named after the “no answer” response to the US label wondering on the album title), ELO’s first album is one of the hardest album to get into due to the poor sound and muddy production, but it is much worth the patience as the music is definitely prog with its heavy classical music instrumentation ala Eleanor Rigby (just listen to Look At Me Now to get a peak into the album’s key), but unfortunately too often disregarded due to their later almost disco-like career of the late 70’s.
Many of the band’s harder edged sounds are coming from Roy Wood’s mad musical ideas (Wood was the man behind The Move – one of the craziest psych groups around the late 60’s) while Jeff Lynne (who came from Idle Race) was more Beatles- inspired. One of the most endearing musical characteristics of ELO’s first two albums are the Renaissance influences, much the same way Gryphon was also greatly under the spell of. Just listen to Battle Of Marston Moor or their surprise hit 10538 Overture, just to get an idea. Marston is an astounding piece of music every proghead must listen, while First Movement is reminiscent of Focus’s Sylvia or House Of The King. Mr Radio is the typically Beatles-influenced Lynne track but again with a much proggier twist. Manhattan Rumble starts off as a sombre war march and is another superb and instrumental track while Queen Of The Hours is yet another highlight with again Roy wood doing the bundle of the instrument playing (he handles almost all the classical instrument bar the odd horn and the violin. The album closes on a minor composition, but cannot stop the open-minded progheads to think that this might just be an essential album.
The songwriting is almost divided in half (Lynne 5 to Wood’s 4) but clearly on the arrangement’s side, Wood was the man behind the album and Lynne’s poppier tracks are heavily infested by Wood’s instrumentation.
Weirdly enough, Wood who had worked so hard and against all odds to form this group will leave the group after this debut album, to found his RW’s Wizzard (a rockier Renaissance music group), leaving Lynne take care of the band and ELO will have a long and varied career with many highlights, but also some disgustingly commercial success. To all progheads dismissing ELO, they’d better listen to this album to swallow back their words in complete shame. Much worth its fourth star and even another half one.
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let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword
|
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NotAProghead
Special Collaborator
Errors & Omissions Team
Joined: October 22 2005
Location: Russia
Status: Offline
Points: 7932
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Posted: February 03 2006 at 09:43 |
I don't understand why the presence of some bands in PA upsets some people. It's so easy to skip information on artists you dislike.
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Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)
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RoyalJelly
Forum Senior Member
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Status: Offline
Points: 582
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Posted: February 03 2006 at 09:08 |
And lots of horribly cheesy ones, ugghhh.....
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proger
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Joined: June 03 2005
Location: Israel
Status: Offline
Points: 944
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Posted: February 03 2006 at 07:08 |
ELO has a great prog related songs...
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...live for tomorrow...
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PROGMAN
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VIP Member
Joined: February 03 2004
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 2664
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Posted: February 03 2006 at 05:59 |
^^ OK I too would like to see Zep (especially Houses of Holy, Physical Griffitti and Zoso (IV) but I think it more important to add more Prog bands first that may not be in the archives!!!
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CYMRU AM BYTH
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