Phil Collins - Is He Any Good?

Phil Collins, odious little man!

Dissed Rush and Styx in the late seventies and Marillion in the eighties. Must dislike Fish because he does a better PG impression than himself! Wouldnt appear on the Buddy Rich tribute albums claiming he was planning  one himself ()

Very good drummer, but not great! Though it is not his Hi-Hats he should get off it is his high horse (kettles calling pots Reed?)

He is the only man I know that can out-smug Sting and destroyed one of the greatest bands of the last century to pave the way for his own pop career sell-out! GRRRRRRR

When Selling England By The Pound was released, one track was definitly "designed" to hit the radios - I Know What I Like and that tune became the elevator for the band. They probably made a huge effort to mantain the Prog pattern for 2 more albums, and then back in the commercial lane with The Trick of The Tail... Yes was in a deadlock and totally obcure untill the arrival of Trevor Rabin and the release of 90125, a clearly designed album for the radio charts. But hey guys, considering many other Prog names like Oldfield, just take a look at QEII, Platinum and Earth Moving ! ! ! ! Have any of you "die-hard" prog fans out there ever head TRIUMVIRAT's Russian Roulette (1980)...

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Lunar 

And once more a thread has deteriorated! I don't mind,it's just an observation.... As for the original question,I think that's been answered already but to recap: Collins is a great drummer,but a lamentable songwriter and performer in his own right. His reputation would have remained very nearly spotless if he'd only done the first soloalbum,and then concentrated on the drums and vocals with Genesis and instead of the terrible solo career he should just have continued with Brand X or started another hobby band in the fusion/prog vein and left it with that.

Velvetclown wrote: The lyrics to " In A Mouse´s Night " are the most  lyrics I´ve ever heard in my life !!!!!!!!

Cant argue with that.

Pixel Pirate:

I agree about 'Wind & Wuthering' its a brilliant album, with some of Banks best songs.

I'm a far bigger Genesis fan than I am a Yes fan, but to be honest I'd rather listern to 90125 anyday than Invisible Touch. I've always liked 90125, it's not the Yes that we'd come to know, but at least it rocked, sounded original and refreshing and maintained the Yes high standard of musicianship. Invisible touch was actually dumbed down, riddled with love songs which could have been plucked from any PC solo album.

Big Generator  I have to agree..

Garion81 wrote: Blacksword wrote: I liked some of his work with Brand X, but have hated every song he has recorded on his own. I have heard all his solo albums, and I think they are rubbish, without exception. I used to get teased at school for liking Genesis, not because they were prog rock, but because Phil Collins was in them, and he had recorded 'You cant hurry love' and other such musical monstrosities. You can hardly blame the teasers, Genesis sounded like PC's backing group after 1982. He has turned his back on creative, meaningful music and has chosen a life of celebrity; red carpets, awards ceremonies, bimbo brides and gold jewelery. What makes it worse is that he is so keen to get his boat (face, for non UK forumers ) in wherever he can. He was even duped by Channel 4's Brass Eye team along with other such celeb fools in the Alan Partridge league, like Noel Edmonds.. Anyway, I rant What happened to one of the best rock/jazz drummers in the world??, and how did he get away with taking Genesis from 'Foxtrot' to 'Invisible touch' Didn't Tony Banks notice what was happening???   OK just a bit harsh.  I think the rest of Genesis was on board his "boat" that set sail for the land of fame and fortune. At least none of them jumped ship in protest did they ?  I think the band itself did the greatest injustice not by turning to pop but by completly turning it's back on the fans that kept them afloat for all of those years by not playing live any of it's music pre 1980. It is what  ticked me off and I stopped buying albums and going to see them live.  Oh, if someone had their album I would listen just to see what they were doing but I think I jumped off their bandwagon just as everyone else in the world was jumping on. You cannot lay that all at the guy with the round head's feet. That was a band decsion. I think poetic justice for Genesis is this the last thing you see on the Wembly viedo is them doing copy tunes.  That is a fitting end for that era of the band. So Charlie Brown uh Phil Collins is what he is.    Oh and to say he did something wrong by choosing what he did?  Man, I didn't know there were rules attached to this anywhere?   (To be honset I saw the Charlie Brown reference elsewhere.)

My comments are no more harsh than many others here. I'm expressing my opinion on Phil Collins. I'm not stating that I am correct, I am sharing my view. Thats the point of a forum.

I accept your point about Banks and Rutherford wanting fame and fortune as much as PC. I, but remember Steve Hackett did jump ship, with a little help from his freinds of course. Genesis gradually pushed him out by rejecting the songs he was bringing to the band. His song 'Please dont touch' was bound for 'Wind & Wuthering' until PC said he dodn't want to play it, and instead the paying customer was left with 'Wot Gorilla'  That was when Steve Hackett worked out that they were heading for very 'safe' waters and that there was politics at play to get him out. 

I'm not sure what you mean when you speak of not knowing where the rules are for the choices he made. Thats irrelevant. I never stated that there were any rules and that he should have followed a path of Prog obscurity. I dont personally like the celebrity thing, and as a long term Genesis fan I was dissapointed and quite surprised that PC would want to mix with that set. I considered what he had before to be better. He made his choice and as someone who has helped line his pockets over the years I consider myself entitled to criticize him.

Excellent drummer, reasonable singer (most of the time).

A trick of the tail is a masterpiece, fully worth to be ranked with the best of the Gabriel era. Wind and wuthering was already less interesting, and from a prog point of view it went downhill all the way since then.

Still, there were isolated songs that the Collins' Genesis made afterwards which are still great to listen to (but they're simply not prog). Follow you follow me, Land of confusion, Jesus he loves me, as examples, or a solo effort like In the air tonight.

An interesting question though: did they go the commercial pop route at the expense of their prog career, or did they notice themselves that from a prog point of view they were hitting a dead end (see the continuing decline of quality before they actually jumped the shark) and decided to change course?