Prog created with the help of AI |
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Hrychu
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 03 2013 Location: poland? Status: Offline Points: 5353 |
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On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.
Ernest Vong |
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I prophesy disaster
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 31 2017 Location: Australia Status: Online Points: 4776 |
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No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man.
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Hrychu
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 03 2013 Location: poland? Status: Offline Points: 5353 |
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On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.
Ernest Vong |
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: December 23 2009 Location: Emerald City Status: Offline Points: 17845 |
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IMO, the use of AI in the arts is not creativity from the heart or mind but simply somewhat lazy. Most here have a dislike/hate of autotune, it was not around back in the day and all vocals were the natural talent of the singer.
Today that is not the case at all where tons of autotune is being used. Using autotune replaces the work a vocalist needs to do to create a magical performance. If notes are not hit, simply use autotune and you can fix it. If you are struggling writing a song/lyrics/music, and don't want to invest the artistic time, simply press a button. I don't think it has much to do about ethics, unless someone said they wrote the song but actually used some artificial help fir some or all if it.
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Hrychu
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 03 2013 Location: poland? Status: Offline Points: 5353 |
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Anyway, I don't want this thread to become another "AI ethics drama battlefield". So, I'll leave yall with this.
Who wouldn't've preferred to wear a T-Shirt of their favorite artist knowing the artist is honest with the public rather than dishonest, right? ;) |
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On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.
Ernest Vong |
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Hrychu
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 03 2013 Location: poland? Status: Offline Points: 5353 |
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Well, the problem appears when you decide to publish your "creations" made that way. If you publish something, you have to expect the viewers to enjoy it or not. If someone's hobby is to hurt others, it's not fair, right?
also
It's not a question of whether I approve it or not. It's generally destructive for creativity. Tons of people have said it why that is. People with a lot more weight of words than just a rando like me. Edited by Hrychu - June 24 2024 at 08:53 |
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On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.
Ernest Vong |
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TheGazzardian
Prog Reviewer Joined: August 11 2009 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 8667 |
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This is such a strange take to me. How people choose to spend their luxury time is up to those people, yet you are saying he is 'doing it wrong' and that he's not really 'passionate about it' because he doesn't do it the way you approve of? GenAI is a landmine right now but imo using it as a creative assistant rather than as a creative replacement is way better. And if it's just to help you enjoy a hobby more - what's the deal? Seriously?
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Hrychu
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 03 2013 Location: poland? Status: Offline Points: 5353 |
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I don't hate this tech when it's used as a sound design tool rather than a "press here if you lack talent" thing
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On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.
Ernest Vong |
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progaardvark
Collaborator Crossover/Symphonic/RPI Teams Joined: June 14 2007 Location: Sea of Peas Status: Offline Points: 50937 |
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I agree. It would be more useful as a tool for jump-starting the creative process. What I've been seeing is people telling it to create an entire composition in the style of this or that. Instead of doing that, it would be more interesting to see what it does if told to make some random notes across maybe three bars in a given time signature and give it no style to work from. Sometimes just three or four notes are all that is needed to build an entire song around (e.g., the title track for Gilmour's Rattle That Lock was based on France's railway jingle used by SNCF) There have been similar kinds of tools in the past: fractal music generators, random number generators, and mathematical tools (like Morse code or the Fibonacci sequence).
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i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions |
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cstack3
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: July 20 2009 Location: Tucson, AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 7264 |
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AI is useful as a way to get the creative process going. For example, guitarist Jimmy Page would use different tunings on guitar and just play things, to generate ideas. These were later fleshed out into songs with the band, processed etc.
AI in art is much like that. Most of the product I've seen or heard is garbage, the result of a lot of sampling across the web. However, it can generate ideas.
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I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!!
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: December 23 2009 Location: Emerald City Status: Offline Points: 17845 |
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If any artist uses AI to create music, I think the artist should have full disclosure in the liner notes, giving consumers the choice to buy it or not.
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stegor
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 23 2013 Location: Minnesota Status: Offline Points: 2028 |
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I'm not a musician (maybe a non-musician), so I don't feel threatened by AI in the way that a professional musician might. But it seems to me the only musicians that need to worry are the ones that write disposable stock music, the same with stock photography and clip-art. I don't care how advanced and sophisticated AI music gets, it won't replace real music, because it is not REAL. The love for the CREATOR of the music is as important as the music itself, and who can love a bunch of ones and zeros? Or for that matter the human that types a prompt and pushes a button over and over again?
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Hrychu
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 03 2013 Location: poland? Status: Offline Points: 5353 |
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If you don't have enough time for your hobbies in your job schedule, you can simply do it less often. Choosing to use GenAI instead is the equivalent to giving a huge middle finger to your own desires and to other people who are passionate about music making the same way you used to be.
BTW, Tracker music is super cool! As an FL Studio/Reaper user, I like to make some tracker modules from time to time to escape my habits. Edited by Hrychu - June 22 2024 at 06:40 |
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On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.
Ernest Vong |
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arohtelp
Forum Newbie Joined: June 26 2007 Status: Offline Points: 12 |
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I started composing music back in the late 90s using programs like Fast Tracker and Modplug Tracker. (Here are some tracks from that period: https://soundcloud.com/user-483988808 ) But then I switched to FL Studio, and began to try to achieve high quality arrangements and sound, which requires a lot of time and effort. As a result, I began to lose the desire to write anything at all. After all, this is a hobby, not a main job. For the last 5-6 years I almost gave up, but then suddenly Suno and UDIO appeared and my interest flared up again. In this sense, such programs can encourage people who would normally never do anything like this to engage in some creative activities.
It could be argued that this would lead to an oversaturation of the music market and harm professional musicians. However, let's be honest, musicians who make music primarily for self-expression in most cases can make money only from live concerts. But concerts are here to stay. At least in the next 10-15 years. And when they mostly disappear, it will not be because of amateurs using AI to create music, but because of the AIs themselves, who will begin to create music for each specific person in a fully automatic mode. As for musicians who create music primarily for money, this, in my opinion, is not an art at all, but a craft, which is absolutely logical to automate. And this is neither good nor bad, this is progress. It's unavoidable. Nobody forbids you to compose music the old fashioned way in the future, but you must be prepared for the fact that you will spend a lot of effort and time, but almost no one will listen to it. In fact, even now almost no one will listen to it, unless you express yourself by composing trendy catchy pop music (but even in this case there will be few listeners without special promotion).
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Hrychu
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 03 2013 Location: poland? Status: Offline Points: 5353 |
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On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.
Ernest Vong |
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arohtelp
Forum Newbie Joined: June 26 2007 Status: Offline Points: 12 |
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I've been composing music as a hobby for 25 years. 24 of them without AI assistance:) I see the difference, which is why I use the term "create" rather than "compose".
As for the video, it describes the SUNO.ai, which is much worse than UDIO in terms of sound quality and, most importantly, in terms of the degree to which a person can influence the composition. At the moment it is only suitable for producing simple catchy pop songs, which is what I did a few months ago, but then I quickly got tired of it.
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arohtelp
Forum Newbie Joined: June 26 2007 Status: Offline Points: 12 |
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The problem is not even to create something unique (a random number generator can do that), but to make it unique and enjoyable to listen to. However, the biological neural network in our head somehow does this, so I don't think artificial neural networks can't achieve it. I think that in 5 years all mainstream pop music will be composed by neural networks, and in 10 years each person will have a special neural network that will compose music just for him in a fully automatic mode. For human composers to compete with this, they need to be geniuses on the level of Bach, and even then they will only be listened to by a very narrow circle of connoisseurs. This will be niche art.
I will give a specific example. I really like music that I made with the help of UDIO. Despite the fact that I objectively understand that it is quite average and generic. The thing is that when I created it, I chose those generated pieces that I liked most. The result is compositions that seem tailor-made specifically for me.
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Cristi
Special Collaborator Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Offline Points: 43519 |
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That Genesis cloning song is rather awful TBH.
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Hrychu
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 03 2013 Location: poland? Status: Offline Points: 5353 |
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Arohtelp, you're confusing creating music with clicking a button and a getting and audio result spat out by a procedural generator based on vague prompts/parameters!
The former result matches the creator's vision, while the latter merely matches the prompt and whatever data the overglorified scammer's toy was trained upon. Please watch this video made by someone with legit knowledge. Get educated, folks! Edited by Hrychu - June 20 2024 at 01:51 |
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On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.
Ernest Vong |
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Sebastianmoto
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 07 2023 Location: Northants, UK Status: Offline Points: 129 |
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Can UDIO even produce anything unique? If it is built upon pre-existing data, is it not bound to always rehash ideas from actual musicians? If AI can never be 'progressive' then at least the impending threat of AI music might force musicians to stay one step ahead. As long as PA never accepts AI music it'll outlive the internet itself, because we'll never be able to trust another site again soon .
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