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Nogbad_The_Bad View Drop Down
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Points: 20848 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2023 at 07:32
Moshkito - this thread is about how Progfreak is used by the Progarchives genre teams to assess bands for inclusion in PA. It is therefore logical that the opinions we want to solicit on that subject are from those people on the genre teams who are actually doing the work as volunteers. I mean no disrespect. I purely want to make sure that this is a focused discussion. I also don't want any changes made to the way we use PF without it being aligned internally rather than reacting to every suggestion made.

If you feel disrespected that is on you. This discussion is not about you or anyone else not on the genre teams.


Edited by Nogbad_The_Bad - April 17 2023 at 07:33
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Points: 17516 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2023 at 07:18
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

No we don't want a 2 album minimum applied. Moshkito does not represent PA and is not on any genre teams. I dread to think how many one and done great bands wouldn't be on PA if we applied that rule. Please ignore any suggestions made, we will review internally prior to suggesting to PF.

Thanks


Hi,

Not fair. I made the comment that today we're finding a lot of bands that just did one album, and appreciating them, which caused a doubt in my mind, although myself, and Guy Guden, we went out and found the music and did not worry about their being one or two in their catalog, but some things were easier to follow ... for example, when SEVENTH WAVE was released, it ended up getting SECOND HAND an immediate listen, and it was added to the current listing of the show.

I, honestly, don't want to represent anyone, simply because of the attitude that you are showing ... which, while I accept it, is really somewhat disrespectful, because in essence you are denying my own points and views regardless.

PA has its great side ... but it also has its bad side, by "Admins" that continually disrespect their friends, and folks that post, right or wrong ... even if at 72, I accidentally mention Idi Amin in the wrong section!

But in essence, and the worst part, is that you are "denying" someone that has been "there" right from the start, simply because I can not agree in full to all the PA this and that which you have personally. Which makes your post personal, and not appreciative of all the listenership and talent out there in the posts.

Sorry PF ... the post was honest, and seeing/hearing the thoughts behind the single album idea is great for me, and did not require a left foot to the balls!Embarrassed
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Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:


Having just added a band I have an issue with this, we get bands suggested by people for inclusion that are then added to PF and then assessed to see if we are going to add them to PA. Requiring an album to assessed for progginess before they can be evaluated by the team is the wrong way round. No team members have made an assessment at that stage. If you want a progginess assessment for bands then it should be a requirement for add the rating before bands can be 'Cleared' or 'Added'.

Make sense?

Yes, I will change it accordingly, makes sense. My goal here is simply that as you, the team members, are using the charts, the PF database also gets filled with a little more info than just the bare artist names. I don't want to impose any rules on how you are actually using the charts which interfere with how you are evaluating the artists. Smile
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Originally posted by bardberic bardberic wrote:

Hey Mike! Sorry to say this, but since the new update, for whatever the site has been running really slow for me, especially in "cover matrix" mode, which frequently gives me this error message, including with my collection, too.

Have you tried reloading the page? I have a script that alerts users to reload the page when the frontend code has changed, but sometimes it stops working ...
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Points: 20848 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 15 2023 at 14:30
Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:

Let's use this thread as a means to chat about the pa genre charts at Progfreak.com. I'll announce changes that I make, you can ask me questions about it, and we can discuss features.

Today I made a major change: In order to get a little bit more information about the bands into the PF database, at least one release tagged with progressiveness and main genre is required in order to add an artist to a PA genre chart. I hope this is not asking too much, and in exchange we (usually me, personally) will add external links and videos to the artist and the releases.

What do you think? Smile

Having just added a band I have an issue with this, we get bands suggested by people for inclusion that are then added to PF and then assessed to see if we are going to add them to PA. Requiring an album to assessed for progginess before they can be evaluated by the team is the wrong way round. No team members have made an assessment at that stage. If you want a progginess assessment for bands then it should be a requirement for add the rating before bands can be 'Cleared' or 'Added'.

Make sense?
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Points: 871 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bardberic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 14 2023 at 21:36
Hey Mike! Sorry to say this, but since the new update, for whatever the site has been running really slow for me, especially in "cover matrix" mode, which frequently gives me this error message, including with my collection, too:




Edited by bardberic - April 14 2023 at 21:37
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Mr ProgFreak View Drop Down
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^^ Sure! It’s up to you, the genre teams, to decide.

Edited by Mr ProgFreak - April 13 2023 at 11:04
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Points: 51060 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progaardvark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2023 at 11:02
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

yet another "designation" for zheul is not a good idea ... this time tomato zheul, or kitchen zheul ... and I would not even consider listening to either of those!

I don't know, Pedro. Tomato Zeuhl sounds mighty tasty to me.
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No we don't want a 2 album minimum applied. Moshkito does not represent PA and is not on any genre teams. I dread to think how many one and done great bands wouldn't be on PA if we applied that rule. Please ignore any suggestions made, we will review internally prior to suggesting to PF.

Thanks
Ian

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https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/
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Mr ProgFreak View Drop Down
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Points: 5195 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr ProgFreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2023 at 08:25
Another thought about the "at least two progressive releases" idea ... if a band has only one progressive release, shouldn't that be on PA? I mean, the mission of PA is to be the most complete resource for progressive rock.
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Points: 5195 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr ProgFreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2023 at 08:18
I think I understand moshkito - I can only recommend for anyone interested in a different approach to try out Progfreak.com. Only today I added two new mass-tagging features that make it easy for users to tag the releases just as they see fit. I also appreciate the PA approach, both have their advantages and disadvantages.

As to the specific point: If the PA genre teams would like that, I could make it mandatory that artists require at least two progressive releases in order for them to be added to the charts. But that would be for them to decide. It would make me happy, since it would mean more data being added to the PF database Cool
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Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:

...
Today I made a major change: In order to get a little bit more information about the bands into the PF database, at least one release tagged with progressiveness and main genre is required in order to add an artist to a PA genre chart. I hope this is not asking too much, and in exchange we (usually me, personally) will add external links and videos to the artist and the releases.
...


Hi,

( I might not be exactly/totally on par with the OP ... so you know!)

I've said before that almost all bands should have at least a 2nd album before being considered for inclusion ... however, 50 years later, there are so many bands left out, that we have to add them somewhere along the line, since they did not exist beyond that point, and we could not have known that.

My only concern, is the desire to add a band because you can tell they mean it, and then in their 2nd album, it is all just a bunch of pop songs and not a single long cut! ...

As for the back and forth from PA, I can not say much, although I would suggest some communication to be satisfactory to both sites, as long as we don't fall into ... the competitive elements of it all ... I'm bigger than you are and I make this call ... ppppdffffffttttt ... kind of thing.

I'm not a fan of "charts" of any kind, unless you create a chart that shows all the styles and designations for the music (that's 2 different charts btw!!!) ... so folks get a better idea where/how these things are defined and decided ... and this is a side issue I think about with PA as it seems things are simply given to this group or that group and that's the end of the story ... I suppose that it is likely to happen with such a large quantity of material being offered, but, again, we could "force" some improvement by demanding a 2nd effort for the band ... or artist, not defined by one thing, which at times is more curious and exploratory that it is meaningful to the idea and concept of "progressive".

I don't even know how to discuss all this ... the process in each area is so obscure, and so difficult and ignoring music history and its development, that a lot of things that are defined as X, Y or Z, simply are badly placed and shown, and I think it tend to lower the standards of the music itself, and eventually take people away from a wider taste for music ... yet another "designation" for zheul is not a good idea ... this time tomato zheul, or kitchen zheul ... and I would not even consider listening to either of those!

I don't think you understand of the PF collaboration with PA, what's the purpose and so on... 
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Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:

...
Today I made a major change: In order to get a little bit more information about the bands into the PF database, at least one release tagged with progressiveness and main genre is required in order to add an artist to a PA genre chart. I hope this is not asking too much, and in exchange we (usually me, personally) will add external links and videos to the artist and the releases.
...


Hi,

( I might not be exactly/totally on par with the OP ... so you know!)

I've said before that almost all bands should have at least a 2nd album before being considered for inclusion ... however, 50 years later, there are so many bands left out, that we have to add them somewhere along the line, since they did not exist beyond that point, and we could not have known that.

My only concern, is the desire to add a band because you can tell they mean it, and then in their 2nd album, it is all just a bunch of pop songs and not a single long cut! ...

As for the back and forth from PA, I can not say much, although I would suggest some communication to be satisfactory to both sites, as long as we don't fall into ... the competitive elements of it all ... I'm bigger than you are and I make this call ... ppppdffffffttttt ... kind of thing.

I'm not a fan of "charts" of any kind, unless you create a chart that shows all the styles and designations for the music (that's 2 different charts btw!!!) ... so folks get a better idea where/how these things are defined and decided ... and this is a side issue I think about with PA as it seems things are simply given to this group or that group and that's the end of the story ... I suppose that it is likely to happen with such a large quantity of material being offered, but, again, we could "force" some improvement by demanding a 2nd effort for the band ... or artist, not defined by one thing, which at times is more curious and exploratory that it is meaningful to the idea and concept of "progressive".

I don't even know how to discuss all this ... the process in each area is so obscure, and so difficult and ignoring music history and its development, that a lot of things that are defined as X, Y or Z, simply are badly placed and shown, and I think it tend to lower the standards of the music itself, and eventually take people away from a wider taste for music ... yet another "designation" for zheul is not a good idea ... this time tomato zheul, or kitchen zheul ... and I would not even consider listening to either of those!


Edited by moshkito - April 13 2023 at 07:19
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Mr ProgFreak View Drop Down
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Points: 5195 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr ProgFreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2023 at 01:05
Sure! If there's any problems, just let me know. With the new website in place and the old one retired, I can make changes and fix bugs quite easily. 
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We should see how PF works on our eval through operating it from now on. Thanks Mike. Thumbs Up
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They were completely gone at some point. These genre charts are confusing for PF users, so I decided to not make them part of the main navigation when I re-implemented them. It would be really nice if M@x could link to them from the PA home page, since they relate more to PA than to PF Cool
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Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

PA charts are down right now Ermm


Can you reload the page? I've done some major changes today, including pagination for the list of completed bands and a view that lists all the artists across all charts. Available here:






Oh, thank you. But why is there no link/button/menu option leading to the charts on the home page? I thought they were completely gone!
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^ it's working now. 
Thanks! 
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

PA charts are down right now Ermm

Can you reload the page? I've done some major changes today, including pagination for the list of completed bands and a view that lists all the artists across all charts. Available here:





Edited by Mr ProgFreak - April 12 2023 at 06:23
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Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

I'm good with that, the only issue I see is that we add bands to PF that are in the process of being assessed for their inclusion in PA and as such there will be plenty of instances of bands that get rejected for PA being included in the PF database. This has always been the case with the way we use the site. As long as you continue to be ok with this we should be fine.

Any band can be listed on Progfreak, users decide whether the music is progressive. So that's no problem at all. Smile
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