Roger Waters

omphaloskepsis wrote: My definitions Anti-Semitism is "hostility and prejudice directed against Jewish people" Anti-Zionism is not Anti-Semitism.  That said, pro- Zionist's conflate Anti-Semitism and Anti-Zionism, because the conflation of the two terms hamstrings peoples like Palestinians from criticizing the Israeli government's abuse toward Palestinians.  An Anti-Zionist is a person/group who harshly criticizes or is hostile to Israeli governments actions.  It's entirely possible for an Anti-Zionist to love the Jewish people but hate Israeli government's actions.  I am not an Anti-Zionist or an Anti-Semitist.  I empathize with the plight of the Palestinians, yet I understand why Israel wants to protect their borders from Palestinians.   That said, I wish America would spend the money that they send to Israel on Americans instead.

Edited by David_D - March 25 2023 at 04:13

David_D wrote: After I've done some more research about the use of the term "anti-Zionism" today, I better say that my opinion about it  depends on which definition is used and which exact political attitude it's about.

I have moved this thread to the "Topics not related to music - General  discussion" section as it was never about an appreciation of Roger Waters music and has become only tangentially related to Roger at all.

I'm sure it's nice to get a good rutabaga crop from your bellybutton. But if said bellybutton produces too much fertilizer, those of us downstream aren't going to immediately name our algal blooms after you. Oops, did I just say that out loud? 

David_D wrote: Btw, Mirakaze, what do you mean by "wiener"? I've googled it, but I've only found something about sausages and .... a bit naughty word.

I have a lot of respect for Waters - the fact he seems to speak from the heart is very encouraging in the era of autocracy and populism.  How many of our prog heroes that are still going still manage to whip up controversy (or did they ever?)  A former CPGB member (Waters now admits he is a capitalist), the only other prog musician who is radical in this sense is Robert Wyatt (don't see many people frothing at his song, 'Palestine'), or possibly Roy Harper.  Oh, if you want balance we have Rick Wakeman and Dave Brock.

Stressed Cheese wrote: Atavachron wrote: ^ Oh the superficial morons who know just enough about the situation to sound like fools and who love to go on about how Israel is a fascist war-state are innumerable and increasing.   A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. But I've never actually said anything too in-depth about this whole situation. I think you're just conflating my comments with what other people have said in this thread because this topic clearly gets you very worked up.

Logan wrote: ....I'd rather be a wiener than dick could be a Simon and Garfunkl song....

David_D wrote: <span style="white-space:pre">     </span>Btw, Mirakaze, what do you mean by "wiener"? I've googled it, but I've only found something about sausages and .... <span style="white-space:pre">     </span>a bit naughty word.

A reference to "Several Species of Small Furry Wieners Gathered Together in a Cave and Grooving with a Pict", " "Careful with That Wiener, Eugene", "Shine On You Crazy Wiener, "One of These Wieners", "Waiting for the Wieners", and maybe "Have a Cigar" since as Freud said, "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar [and not a wiener}". The only possible Jewish ritualistic reference I can find is possibly "The Final Wiener Cut" (aka the "brit milah" song).

If it is more tangentially do with that wiener fixation which Freud would find fascinating, then I think it refers to a dork. It does refer to a certain naughty bit (like the Monty Python Song, "Isn't it awfully nice to have a *****", but it's a childish name for someone who is awkward, wimpy and loserish based on the anatomy.. I'd rather be called a wiener than a dick (I'd rather be a wiener than dick could be a Simon and Garfunkl song)..

I had a terrible and ,most embarrassing encounter with Waters once where I prepared to water a fountain beside his table thinking it was the washroom. His group and mine were the only ones in the Warsaw hotel atrium. I caught myself in time, but he gave me a withering look of the utter contempt. Valium, beer, and lack of sleep don't mix.

As for his political views, I care much more about his music. These are very complex issues. I do know Jews who are anti-Zionist. And many are against the Israeli government People on both sides are doing wrong.

Edited by Logan - March 22 2023 at 16:04